New Year New Ad Platform: A Look At AppLovin

Jan 1

This episode is a tactical breakdown of AppLovin as a scaled acquisition channel—what’s actually different vs Meta, what you should change in creative + campaign structure, and how to think about incrementality + reporting so you don’t judge it with the wrong yardstick.

Miranda Pettinger, Performance Marketing Manager at 365 Holdings explains how they onboarded to the platform when Meta was underperforming and AppLovin started popping off in buyer circles. They used a Triple Whale onboarding credit to test with low risk, and at the time it wasn’t even self-serve (you had to Slack the rep for changes).

The short on “why AppLovin works” is AppLovin’s rewarded inventory creates an opt-in attention trade (“watch this 30s ad, get coins”), which changes the psychology from “I’m annoyed by ads” to “I’m choosing to watch this.” That makes the creative game feel closer to a 30-second TV spot: you’ve got time to explain, objection-handle, and sell in one sitting.

From there it turns into a playbook with these Keytakeaways:

18:30 Bidding / structure: ROAS vs cost-per-purchase, why value doesn't work for some catalogs and how to structure campaigns
19:40 DPAs + catalog control: Why DPAs can help if you’ve got lots of variants and the importance of controlling what products show up.
25:50 Measurement reality: AppLovin tends to under-report purchases, especially at scale, so you want to validate with post-purchase survey, MER/traffic lift and/or a 3rd party data tool.
29:30 Incrementality / overlap: The Meta+AppLovin overlap and how Meta+Google overlap is likely way bigger.
33:55 Creative testing: unlike Meta where “testing vs scaling” can feel walled off, AppLovin can allow new winners to climb fast inside the same campaign, without dumping spend on junk.
38:30 End cards: offers matter a lot. How animation helps, and showing variants (colors/metal types) can lift clicks

To connect with Miranda, you can follow her on x at https://x.com/mirandpettinger

To connect with Andrew Foxwell send an email Andrew@foxwelldigital.com

To connect with Brad Ploch send him a DM at https://x.com/brad_ploch

To connect with Zach Stuck send him a DM at https://x.com/zachmstuck

Learn More about the Foxwell Founders Community at https://foxwellfounders.com/

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Full Transcript

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I'm sitting on my phone playing a game

that I'm very engaged in.

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You're likely not going to get up and let

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it play and go to the bathroom

or get a snack

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because like you would for

a TV commercial,

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there's not enough time and

you want to get

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back to your game.

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So again, are also entering into this

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agreement of I will watch an ad

for, you know, a reward

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in my game versus I feel like anytime we

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serve an ad to a customer and

any other platform

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that exists now, they don't want to see

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five second, 10 second videos

that work in meta

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are not going to work in Apple,

at least not at scale.

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You really can make an advertisement

versus entertainment.

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I think that is the biggest mindset shift

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you have to take when going

from meta to Apple

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in of saying Q4 last year, I did pull a

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report of like, OK, the whole

time we were on Apple

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in and meta for all of Q4 last year.

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What was the overlap?

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Because I think that's another

pushback for

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people are like, oh, well,

it's just going

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to retarget my meta customers on there.

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Out of 41,000 orders, there

was only a 5% overlap.

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That's insane.

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It was the day before Black Friday.

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They'd spent 40 grand and it held, you know,

by doubling and doubling day over day.

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And it was like, just put it to 80.

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Like, let's see what happens.

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Will it break?

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And it didn't.

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It still hit the same row as number when

I hit the button from 40 to 80.

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And now let's take a listen to the

Scalability School podcast.

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OK.

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All right.

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Welcome, everyone, to episode 19 of the

Scalability School podcast.

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The app-loving scaling playbook

is what we have

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today with Miranda Pettinger

from 365 Holdings.

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Legend in the media buying space.

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Legend on X.

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Legendary person.

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I recently announced on X that Miranda

is actually my favorite follow.

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No offense to Brad or anyone

else, because

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all she does is just bring

straight heat and

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actually is in the trenches

and you can tell.

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So, Miranda, thank you for the value you

provide for us and welcome to the show.

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As you can see, we're pretty

high production here.

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Pretty high production situation.

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Yeah.

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I like the garage.

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Yes.

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Well, the garage is where we've been

doing a lot of different stuff.

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And, you know, honestly,

my the chair, for

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those of you not watching

this, my chair has

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been taken.

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And so now I have a paint

bucket to sit on.

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So that's where we're at today.

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That's the kind of this.

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There's a metaphor somewhere

in there for life.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Exactly.

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You know, exactly.

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Yeah.

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I've always I always laugh

at like, I don't

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know what your setup or

Miranda, what your

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setup is, but I think a

lot of people have

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like, you know, massive monitors

and all this.

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And like, I've always I had a big desk

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setup and like I actually had

my dad make a like

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a thing for me where like

he's a woodworking

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kind of enthusiast and had

this big setup with

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my monitors.

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This was before we had Nora.

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And now I love having the laptop

and that's it.

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And kind of the like you've you

haven't made it right.

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You're nobody.

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Like back to my start, the kind

of startup vibes.

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Like I love that feeling because

it's I don't know.

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I feel like if I make it too permanent

thing, it becomes more legit.

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And you're just a Chad Scaler.

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You're just the just kind of

it doesn't feel right.

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You know what I mean?

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Like, I think so.

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Anyway, I don't know what your

setup is, Miranda.

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I bet you.

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I like to move a lot.

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So like I have my desk and then I have a

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monitor and then I have a big

chair in my office.

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So I kind of move and sit there.

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Oh, nice.

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I just got a house with my

husband recently.

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But last year I was in an apartment

with a roommate and my dog.

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And I would just work at like the kitchen

table or I'd like work on my bed.

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So I've moved up in the world in the past couple

of months as far as my work setup.

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And Miranda, do you suffer from what all

media buyers suffer from, which is that

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your friends and family still don't

really know what you do?

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Yes.

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Last Black Friday, I was up at like three

in the morning running ads.

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And I was at my husband's family's

house and they were

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having like their second Thanksgiving

for his dad's side.

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And I was just in his like

childhood bedroom

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working on ads and taking calls

with my boss all day long.

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And they were like, Miranda, are you

going to come down and eat?

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And I was like, I will come get a

plate for like 10 minutes.

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But then I have to go stare

at my computer again.

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I'm sure we'll repeat that

again this year.

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Yeah, that's just how it goes.

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Like they could not even fathom the amount

of money that you're probably spending.

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And that's exactly my family is the same.

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They're like, I don't I don't get it.

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You show me the annoying you make the

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annoying things that pop up

in my feed happen.

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I was like, all right, fine.

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Yeah, I told my husband that I spent more

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than our house costs like in

a day the other day.

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And he was like, oh, OK, that's nice.

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I was like, yeah, that's kind of

how reality is right now.

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I had a friend that I was launching

some ads with.

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And now we were doing something for kind of

this brand we were working on together.

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And he's like, all right,

do you think what

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do you think we should start

at per month?

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You know, like five grand a month.

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And I was like, five grand a month.

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Come on.

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I don't have time for that.

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I don't have the money for that.

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Yes, it becomes.

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And then that's the one thing

I've actually

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always respected about our

other co-host who's

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currently on paternity leave.

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Zach is the guts that he has to spend his

own money, like to a legitimate level.

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It's like I'm so I can do it with

other people's money.

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It's like, yes, I have the

same fiduciary duty.

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I feel that.

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But it's like because it's not mine, it's

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like, OK, well, yeah, we're

going to we're

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going to get there.

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It's going to work.

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But I don't know.

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There's something about it.

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Right.

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It's like it's really scary.

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Yeah, I've told my bosses,

I was like, it's

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a really good thing that

I'm not spending my

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own money because I would be terrible

at this if it was my own money.

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There's yeah, there's just a different

psychology to it.

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It all turns into a video game.

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You're just trying to make

the numbers go up.

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Precisely.

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Absolutely.

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Well, Miranda, today we're

talking about app

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loving and, you know, the

kind of thing that

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we're getting that you've

been doing on Apple

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and you're spending quite a

bit of money there.

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I think it's important to go through.

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For those of you that don't

know, Miranda,

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Miranda on X is at Miranda Pettinger,

P-E-T-T-I-N-G-E-R.

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I want to make sure everybody gets that.

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And it is a really good follow.

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I think what how did you get

into this, by the way?

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And what do you do?

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Like what is 365 Holdings

and what are the

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verticals, the brands that

are within that?

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Yeah.

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So I actually started out in photography

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and videography in college

and in high school.

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I started my own photography

business when

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I was 14 and set up my own

e-commerce site.

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So that was kind of how I got started in

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e-com and also like the creative

side of marketing

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and kind of just self-taught myself

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everything there was about running

a small business and

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kind of put myself through

college with that

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and got into more of the marketing

side versus,

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you know, photography and video editing.

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So I have that background,

which I think is

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extremely important as a media

buyer, especially

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if you're creating ads and kind

of having the eye for it.

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And then, you know, 365 Holdings was very

involved with the University of Akron.

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So that kind of almost every student knew

who they were since they were local.

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They would provide a lot

of their data for

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our marketing research projects

that came from

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their e-commerce businesses.

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So that's kind of how I heard about the

company and then got employed there.

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365 Holdings owns several different

e-commerce brands.

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Some we buy and hold, some

we buy and sell.

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So it just kind of depends on the

needs of the business.

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But there's currently two

main brands that I

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work on within the umbrella

of the company.

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And I've worked on, you know, up to five

or six at once in the past.

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That's incredible.

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Do you feel like this is like totally a

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sidebar, but do you like the fact

that you get to see

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multiple brands or like, I don't know,

is there value in that?

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I have a bunch of brand side friends that

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they're like, they hit me

up and they're like,

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how are things looking?

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You know, like, should I

be upset right now?

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How are things looking for you?

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And so I feel like it has

to be beneficial

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that you get to see a little

bit of everything

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across.

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I mean, at least the two

which are spending

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meaningful amounts of money,

but maybe a little

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bit more than that.

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Do you find that there's value in that?

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Yeah, I think definitely

having experience

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across different industries

is helpful and

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different personas.

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They all behave differently.

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And I think it also gives me

perspective of you

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have to run different ad accounts

differently.

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I think the this is my playbook and this

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is how to do things doesn't

always apply to

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every brand.

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Even when you try to plug

it into a different

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brand, you're like, oh, this

is not working.

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So that's helpful, too, of just knowing

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every brand behaves differently

and they all have

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different goals.

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They all have different, you know,

LTVs, different AOVs.

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So like the math is always different for

them and the personas are different.

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The ads you need to create, the ad

structure needs to be different.

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So I think that's always been

helpful of like,

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hey, I have this playbook

and it works really

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well, but I try to apply it over

here and it doesn't work.

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So I think that's where

I have a different

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perspective than maybe someone

who's leading,

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you know, a meta ads agency and they have one

strategy and they're just going to go

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to bat on that one thing every time.

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But I've also then touched a bunch of

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different companies and like,

OK, well, some things of

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this work, but then they need different

things applied as well.

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Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

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That's super helpful context

for what you can share.

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Like, what are the what are the general

237

00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,639

industries like gifting heavy,

not gifting heavy?

238

00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:11,600

What are the industries look

like for the brands?

239

00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,000

Both brands I'm touching now are very

240

00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,399

gifting heavy in the pet space

and in jewelry.

241

00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,680

And then I've also been in like food and

242

00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,560

beverage, baby and in different

industries like that.

243

00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,879

But currently I'm in very heavy gifting

and very heavy Q4 brands.

244

00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:24,319

Cool.

245

00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:24,720

Sweet.

246

00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:25,879

That's that's really helpful.

247

00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:27,519

Andrew, I don't know about

you, but I'm like

248

00:08:27,519 --> 00:08:29,519

desperate to get into this

app loving stuff.

249

00:08:29,519 --> 00:08:32,679

So if it's cool, I'm going

to start ripping it.

250

00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:33,039

Let's go.

251

00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,159

We're talking about app loving.

252

00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:34,480

Let's go.

253

00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:35,960

OK, awesome.

254

00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,480

So, Miranda, you there's been a couple of

255

00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,000

tweets that I've seen from

you that you've

256

00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,279

kind of like laid out how much you're

257

00:08:42,279 --> 00:08:44,519

spending on app loving relative

to like other other

258

00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:45,080

channels.

259

00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,840

Can you kind of walk us through like, OK,

260

00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,519

at this point last year,

maybe meta was the

261

00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:51,159

biggest thing and this is when

it started to translate.

262

00:08:51,159 --> 00:08:51,879

Like, I'm just curious about what the

263

00:08:51,879 --> 00:08:53,960

timeline looks like from when

because it sounds like

264

00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,000

and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but

265

00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,600

like app loving is the biggest

piece or might

266

00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,440

be the biggest piece of the pie from from

a total spend perspective for you.

267

00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,600

But like, when did that start to change?

268

00:09:03,879 --> 00:09:05,200

How does that what does that

timeline look like?

269

00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,120

Yeah, it is currently our

highest spending

270

00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,159

channel and that we spend,

you know, going

271

00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:12,960

to Q4, we'll spend, you know, multi

millions of dollars a month.

272

00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:14,960

So, yeah, it's our highest channel.

273

00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,440

I'm curious to see how it racks up against

meta for the full month of November.

274

00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,720

But we onboarded with them the week

before Black Friday last year.

275

00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,600

So down to the wire, basically in Q4.

276

00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,480

Meta was underperforming

for us last year.

277

00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,840

We had really strong growth on meta all

278

00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,080

throughout last year and then kind

of hit November and had

279

00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,159

a really hard time scaling to levels we

thought we were going to hit on meta.

280

00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,799

So that was kind of we were

scrambling and

281

00:09:36,799 --> 00:09:38,919

then app loving was popping

up on Twitter.

282

00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:43,360

And then Triple Whale had their, you

know, their offer to to to onboard.

283

00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,080

And they were at the time they

were giving away a

284

00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,279

ten thousand dollar credit to

onboard at no risk.

285

00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:49,200

So it kind of was a no brainer of like,

286

00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,200

hey, let's go spend 10 grand

on this platform.

287

00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,639

And if it doesn't work, cool.

288

00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:55,399

That didn't cost us anything other

than, you know, my time.

289

00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,840

So it was a no brainer to

just jump on there.

290

00:09:58,039 --> 00:10:00,480

So that's kind of how we got started

on the platform.

291

00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,080

So we've almost been in a year, but

we haven't been in a year yet.

292

00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,039

And onboarded with them at the time

it was not even self-serve.

293

00:10:07,039 --> 00:10:08,320

So you could not even launch.

294

00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,399

You couldn't touch anything.

295

00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,679

Which as a media buyer, like

I can't touch a button.

296

00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:13,600

Like this is not this is not fun.

297

00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:14,480

I want to touch the buttons.

298

00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:19,720

So everything, any change, you had to slack

the account rep of how to if you want

299

00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,080

to change your budget, if you wanted

to upload creative,

300

00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,240

like you had to message them and

they would do it for you.

301

00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,279

So in one hand, it was a little

bit easier because I

302

00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:29,519

didn't have to upload ads or deal with

any of that at the time.

303

00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,840

So it went a little bit faster, but still

304

00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,960

nerve wracking to not be able

to touch anything.

305

00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,919

So how did they how did they report

on performance at time?

306

00:10:36,919 --> 00:10:39,639

Like there was there at least a dashboard

where you could see like real time spend

307

00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:42,279

and efficiency or how did performance

come back to you?

308

00:10:42,279 --> 00:10:43,279

Yeah, we had a dashboard.

309

00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:45,960

And then at the time they were live with

the triple whale integration.

310

00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,279

So you could see all the data flowing

through triple whale,

311

00:10:49,279 --> 00:10:51,159

which was how we were able to validate

that it was working.

312

00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:52,039

Nice. Awesome.

313

00:10:52,279 --> 00:10:53,200

That's that's really helpful.

314

00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,120

And what does it look like in reference

to like now you've been on a year?

315

00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,279

We're jumping all over the place, but like

cohort wise, what is the quality of that

316

00:11:02,279 --> 00:11:04,720

that you can see of the customer

that come?

317

00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,159

Because the reason I ask that question is

because one of the things with TikTok

318

00:11:08,159 --> 00:11:10,720

that happened, you know, many years ago

is everybody got on TikTok.

319

00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,120

And then like later the cohorts

weren't as powerful.

320

00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:15,399

They weren't sticking around as long.

321

00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,159

Do you see that?

322

00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:18,559

Obviously, they're probably on average if

you're continuing to spend that.

323

00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,159

They're the same as meta roughly

or even better, maybe.

324

00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,200

AOB and LTV are higher on

Apple 11 than meta.

325

00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,320

But I would say our demo does

lean more female.

326

00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:33,159

And I think there are a percentage of people

that I'm sure are on mobile games and

327

00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:39,240

aren't on social media that do have a large

share of wallet or disposable income.

328

00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,159

So that's something that I think we've discovered

and why I've kind of made that

329

00:11:43,159 --> 00:11:45,559

assumption based on the AOVs

we see, because it is

330

00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,399

always at least 10 to 20 percent higher

than our AOV on meta.

331

00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:49,200

That's really interesting.

332

00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:54,279

Is there, I mean, do you have a sense of like

how the customer differs otherwise?

333

00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:55,720

Like, do they buy differently?

334

00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,720

Do they have different preferences?

335

00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,200

Like, have you done post-purchase surveys

that you've like filtered down to Apple

336

00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,399

11 to see like how they're

different than like a

337

00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:05,399

meta customer otherwise outside

of the numbers?

338

00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,960

Yeah, a lot of them do play at least our

339

00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,159

customers that we know come

through Apple 11.

340

00:12:10,159 --> 00:12:12,200

So we have our post-purchase

surveys set up and

341

00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:13,759

we have, you know, where did

you hear about us?

342

00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:16,879

And we have mobile game and then we have,

you know, a blank space as well.

343

00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:20,639

And then, you know, all of our other channels

that we're running and at least 15

344

00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:22,600

percent of them don't click

mobile game and

345

00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,519

they tell us exactly which game

they were playing.

346

00:12:24,519 --> 00:12:27,279

They'll say like add on wordscapes

or add on Candy Crush.

347

00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,120

So that's been interesting to see that

they want to tell us like, hey, I was

348

00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,039

playing this game specifically and this

is how I heard about you.

349

00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,519

So that part has been has

been kind of funny

350

00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:37,200

because I'm like, you guys are

messing up my survey.

351

00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,720

Like, I can't. I just need you

to click mobile game

352

00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,840

because now you're hitting other and

you're throwing off my data.

353

00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,000

But that's been interesting. And also the

354

00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,919

conversion paths have been

a lot different.

355

00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:49,159

So meta will see more touch points

typically, you know,

356

00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,000

and we use Triple Whale like North

Beam does the same thing.

357

00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,960

But we'll kind of see people from meta clicking

around quite a bit versus we've had

358

00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,840

probably higher percentage of people on

359

00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,320

Apple 11 click by checkout

with only one click.

360

00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,840

And like true first click attribution.

And then also

361

00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,120

there's a very large overlap from

Apple 11 to Google.

362

00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,279

So people seeing an ad, clicking on an ad

from Apple 11 and then later having a

363

00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:16,679

click on Google, whether it's through our

brand name or even through category

364

00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,000

searches and then converting

off of there.

365

00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,159

Do you think that has anything

to do with like the

366

00:13:21,159 --> 00:13:23,840

type of the ad unit and how the

ad unit actually works?

367

00:13:24,039 --> 00:13:26,320

And maybe it's helpful to describe

that. My understanding

368

00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,720

is you have to watch 30 seconds or

in credits by watching it.

369

00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,279

But like you're pretty committed at 30 seconds,

depending on the type of video, you

370

00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:36,080

only have 60 seconds for

that length itself.

371

00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,440

So like, I don't know, do you have a given

assessment of why that might be?

372

00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,799

100%. So I think the biggest difference

is on meta, you're getting again, both

373

00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:46,600

platforms are getting charged

on a CPM basis.

374

00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:50,679

But on meta, you're getting charged for the

person who watches 10% of your video,

375

00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,519

who watches 0.5% of your video, who just

scrolls past it and did not even

376

00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:57,919

acknowledge the brand or anything

that had to do with the ad.

377

00:13:57,919 --> 00:14:00,200

So the brand recall, I believe,

is a lot higher

378

00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,279

because you are getting that 30

seconds of full attention.

379

00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:08,159

And I think the biggest thing that I think

makes the platform so powerful is if

380

00:14:08,159 --> 00:14:11,320

you're playing a game, you're sitting there,

you have a pop up that says, hey,

381

00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,559

would you like to watch, you know, a video

and get coins or whatever in your game?

382

00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:18,679

And you commit to that transaction.

So you are almost like

383

00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,679

agreeing to I'm going to watch this

whole ad for 30 seconds.

384

00:14:21,679 --> 00:14:25,799

I'm sitting on my phone playing a game that

I'm very engaged in. You're not going

385

00:14:25,799 --> 00:14:29,279

to you're likely not going to get up and let

it play and go to the bathroom or get

386

00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:33,080

a snack because like you would for a TV commercial,

because there's not enough time

387

00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,519

with that 30 seconds and you want

to get back to your game.

388

00:14:35,759 --> 00:14:41,080

So and you, again, are also entering into this

agreement of I will watch an ad for,

389

00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,519

you know, a reward in my game versus I

feel like anytime we serve an ad to a

390

00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:49,399

customer and any other platform that exists

now, they don't want to see it.

391

00:14:49,399 --> 00:14:52,039

They aren't willingly wanting

to watch an ad. They

392

00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:54,000

just, you know, they don't want

to watch a commercial.

393

00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,039

They don't want to see an ad on Meta.

They just want to, you

394

00:14:56,039 --> 00:14:58,480

know, either scroll on their friends

or watch their TV show.

395

00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,639

So I think that transaction almost

makes this a little

396

00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:02,519

bit different than anything we've

seen before in Ecom.

397

00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:07,279

Yeah. Andrew's a huge Candy Crush guy. I'm

pretty sure he spends like nine hours a

398

00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:09,279

day on Candy Crush. So he's

he's familiar.

399

00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,279

Very. Yeah, definitely. So much, so much

bunch of stuff I want to ask about, but

400

00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:17,960

I'm curious about getting right

into the structure of it.

401

00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:23,440

So how do you structure this the right way?

Like from a campaign standpoint, from a

402

00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,799

bid type standpoint, attribution window, like

what do you how do you select that?

403

00:15:27,799 --> 00:15:29,200

And then we'll talk about

creative, of course.

404

00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,240

Yeah, I think something about AppLovin that

is definitely different than Meta.

405

00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:35,279

I think it's probably the most comparable

to Meta. This is why I bring it up,

406

00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,240

because I do believe it's more

of a demand generation

407

00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,879

platform versus, you know, Google is,

you know, demand capture.

408

00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:44,799

So you're kind of creating the

hype, the demand for that

409

00:15:44,799 --> 00:15:48,159

product. It's almost similar to

YouTube, too, in that way.

410

00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:53,120

But the setup is much more simple than what

you'll see in Meta, especially now with

411

00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,960

the 7000 AI optimizations you

have to check on off

412

00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,840

otherwise, and then they'll just

force turn them on anyway.

413

00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,519

But the setup is way easier

than Meta, and it

414

00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:05,080

is much like there isn't as

many decision making.

415

00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,399

It's not like, oh, should

I do ABO or CBO or

416

00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:09,840

should I set a cap? Should

I not set a cap?

417

00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,120

You know, so there's not as

many decisions there.

418

00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,039

So it's pretty simple where you either

419

00:16:14,039 --> 00:16:16,960

choose a day zero or day seven

attribution window.

420

00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,200

I would suggest if you have a higher AOV product

or a longer consideration cycle to

421

00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,559

set seven day, because you're just

feeding the system more data.

422

00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:26,039

If you believe you have something that's

more of an impulse and probably a lower

423

00:16:26,039 --> 00:16:29,519

consideration period, you probably

want day zero.

424

00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,759

But personally, you know,

I use seven day.

425

00:16:31,919 --> 00:16:34,279

And then you just have to either do your

426

00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:36,200

cost per purchase target or

your ROAS target.

427

00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,679

And you just want to set that to whatever

your business objective is.

428

00:16:39,039 --> 00:16:41,799

If your ROAS target is, you know,

300%, put in 300%.

429

00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,240

If your cost per purchase goal

is $60, put in $60.

430

00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,399

So those are like really the only main

things that you have to set there.

431

00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,080

You also then can set targeting.

432

00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:54,120

That's a newer feature of you can

do international ads now.

433

00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,320

So if you do sell outside

of the U.S., you can

434

00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,399

now put ads globally outside

of Western Europe.

435

00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:03,080

So that section is still closed

to Apple and buyers.

436

00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:05,039

But you can also you can do,

you know, Canada,

437

00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:08,119

Australia, Mexico, any other country

you'd want to do.

438

00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,599

And then you just set your

target per country.

439

00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:14,720

So if you are paying the shipping and tariffs

and duties to Canada or Australia,

440

00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,000

then you might want to set your target

higher there to cover the Delta.

441

00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,839

And that's honestly the main targeting

442

00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,519

that you have to set up at

the campaign level.

443

00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:23,000

Yeah.

444

00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,319

So there's a couple of things in

there I'm curious about

445

00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,240

if you've tested or seen a meaningful

difference from them.

446

00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,519

So I literally have my App 11 dashboard

447

00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:32,039

pulled up just so I can walk

through the setup.

448

00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,599

But the difference between zero and

seven day, have you tested it?

449

00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:40,160

Does it make a meaningful

difference or is

450

00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,559

purchase behavior kind of how

you think about it?

451

00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:44,559

And like there's more meaningful

things to test, like spend

452

00:17:44,559 --> 00:17:46,960

more time focused on creative than

the attribution window.

453

00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:47,440

Yeah.

454

00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,519

I mean, personally, seven

day, we saw a lot of

455

00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:51,559

growth by using seven day

instead of day zero.

456

00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:54,640

But we also have a little bit longer

consideration cycle.

457

00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,279

And I do believe you're feeding the

system more data with seven day.

458

00:17:57,279 --> 00:18:03,720

So I would in most cases choose seven personally,

but that's up to the advertiser.

459

00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,920

It also could be if you have very large

swings from like the weekend to the

460

00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,680

weekdays, you may want to do day zero so that

the system is only optimizing on one

461

00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,079

day instead of, oh, well, it

overachieved on Sunday.

462

00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:15,680

So it's going to underachieve on Monday.

463

00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,559

So I've seen a little bit of

that with seven day.

464

00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:22,319

But I think if you're trying to scale aggressively

at large numbers every day, then

465

00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:24,759

I think seven days feeding as

much data as possible.

466

00:18:24,759 --> 00:18:27,480

Do you have an opinion on like ROAS

versus cost per purchase?

467

00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:30,240

My personal anecdote is we tested a brand

468

00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,839

that has a pretty like ranging

AOV and catalog.

469

00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,680

They don't have a ton of products, but the

AOV can easily swing from $40 to $100.

470

00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:38,079

I guess that doesn't mean AOV.

471

00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,160

Their common purchases swing

across that spectrum.

472

00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,920

And we tried value and it was terrible.

473

00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,359

It was like it was very obviously

different.

474

00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:47,960

So do you have a, do you generally

start with one or the other?

475

00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:49,480

Personally run everything on ROAS.

476

00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:53,799

I have a couple of cost per purchase

campaigns for our hero SKUs.

477

00:18:54,039 --> 00:18:56,599

But at least in our case,

I found I'm able to

478

00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:59,920

scale up more on ROAS versus

the cost per purchase.

479

00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:01,519

But I do have both on in my account.

480

00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:03,920

But I would say I end up spending

more on ROAS.

481

00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,200

Do you feel like in your meta

account, just like

482

00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,480

contrasting it, do you have both

live and meta as well?

483

00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:09,519

Yes, I have both.

484

00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:12,079

I have bid caps and I have

a TROAS on in meta.

485

00:19:12,079 --> 00:19:14,319

So we do, you know, run both.

486

00:19:15,079 --> 00:19:17,920

There's been some studies, at least for meta

that's come out where it's like, hey,

487

00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,559

there is very little overlap

from value and volume.

488

00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:22,319

So if you're running bid cap

and you're running

489

00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:25,200

TROAS, meta says you're not overlapping

your customers.

490

00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,440

I don't know if that's true for AppLovin,

but both work for us.

491

00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,160

You read my mind.

492

00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:29,440

Yeah.

493

00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:30,799

That was my question.

494

00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:31,920

Cool. That's good to know.

495

00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,319

So I need to revisit target

ROAS is what you're

496

00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:37,160

saying because my baby gave up

on it a little too fast.

497

00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,160

But that is super interesting.

498

00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,720

One more question on like the actual

campaign setup piece of it.

499

00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,920

What about the DPA section?

500

00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,039

Like incremental, not incremental.

501

00:19:47,319 --> 00:19:49,160

Don't really have an opinion one

way or another on that one.

502

00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,279

I do think it's incremental.

503

00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,400

And I think now, so it's different now.

504

00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,680

So within the last, I want to say two weeks,

they've now added the ability to edit

505

00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,680

your catalog before you only had to serve

your whole Shopify catalog.

506

00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,960

So I did end up having to turn

it off for a lot of our

507

00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,160

products because we serve like 10

different products on AppLovin.

508

00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,599

So I don't want to show them one, like an

ad that's specific for one product and

509

00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:12,680

then see a DPA for a completely

different product.

510

00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,640

What they buy on the website

is up to them.

511

00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,720

But that's kind of where my

opinion was at first.

512

00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,960

Now that you can edit your

catalog, I do have

513

00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,240

specific product sets for the

ads that I'm running.

514

00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:25,079

And then I do have those on.

515

00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:28,799

So I think that has been also

helpful for if you have

516

00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:32,119

a site that has a lot of different

products to offer.

517

00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,000

So like, for example, we sell, you know, pajamas

and there's, you know, long sets,

518

00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,599

there's short sets, there's sweatpants,

there's shorts.

519

00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:40,640

And with apparel, it's like,

well, I don't

520

00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,279

like sweatpants, so I'm not going to buy.

521

00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:44,519

But if you saw then, you

know, a DPA at the

522

00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:46,680

end of like, oh, well, they

have short sets.

523

00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,759

That's what I like.

524

00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:49,680

Then you would be more likely

to click through.

525

00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,440

So I think for apparel or jewelry

or something that has

526

00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,680

a large catalog, you definitely

should have it attached.

527

00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,720

So that if a customer doesn't necessarily

like what they see in your ad, but then

528

00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,799

they still like your product

offerings in a

529

00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:03,119

different way, they'll still

click through.

530

00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:05,039

Okay, that's good to know.

531

00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:07,440

And then, okay, I think I

said one last thing,

532

00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,319

but I have another campaign

set of questions.

533

00:21:09,319 --> 00:21:13,519

Like, how are you splitting campaigns and

then actual, like, maybe the creative

534

00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:15,400

sets, I think is how they

phrase their ad set.

535

00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,119

It's not really an ad set level

because it kind of doesn't

536

00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,680

have an ad set level, but how are

you splitting campaigns?

537

00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,599

Are your ROAS, a bunch of

different products

538

00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:23,319

and cost per purchase need to

be product specific?

539

00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,559

How are you determining how to make new

540

00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:27,519

campaigns and maybe creative

sets at that point?

541

00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:28,279

Yeah, I have.

542

00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:30,880

So I only have one campaign per product.

543

00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:33,519

And the only case that I have two is ROAS

544

00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:37,599

and CPP, but they have the

same ads in each.

545

00:21:37,599 --> 00:21:38,920

So they don't have different ads.

546

00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,319

So you can put up to 10 videos, 10 interactives,

10 images in a creative set.

547

00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:45,519

Their best practice is to put

three to four videos.

548

00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:46,799

And I would stand by that.

549

00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,279

I think putting 10 is too many.

550

00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:53,400

I think it is just, unless you're spending

probably over six figures a day, I don't

551

00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,920

think you're giving it enough

data to filter through

552

00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,200

that and all of your other ads

that you have running.

553

00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,440

But I have a mix in my account.

554

00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,920

So I have some that are just one video,

one interactive, and then one DPA.

555

00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,319

So I have some ads that are very simple.

556

00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:11,240

Actually, I have one ad that's been running

for almost a whole year in there, and

557

00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,519

it still spends several thousands

of dollars a day.

558

00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:16,160

So I would say the ad fatigue is

not as bad as meta here.

559

00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,359

But then I'll also take winners and

put them into a creative set.

560

00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,799

So I'll take, like, okay,

here's 10 winners or

561

00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,240

three or four winners from, you

know, the last 30 days.

562

00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,720

And they're all in their own, you know,

creative set as one video.

563

00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,559

Let's roll them up into one.

564

00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:35,720

I also think if you can take, if you have

an offer you're running that's for only

565

00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,599

for a weekend, or I think it's really

helpful to take your creative sets.

566

00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:43,359

And then you tap on sale end cards or sale

interactives, because then you almost

567

00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,839

can change the creative without having

to make a whole new video.

568

00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:49,720

So say your sale is starting now, but you

don't have your videos ready.

569

00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,640

You can at least tack on, like, a quick image

at the end with your offer, like,

570

00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,759

without having to go in and edit the

whole video and change the CTA.

571

00:22:57,319 --> 00:22:59,319

And so I think that's pretty unique

about the platform.

572

00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:04,759

So you have a mix running of everything now,

and that's what you'd recommend for

573

00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:07,200

everybody, kind of having the creative

learnings that, you

574

00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,440

know, translating from meta as a

meta forward advertiser.

575

00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,640

What are the things that other

people, you'd want people

576

00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,480

to know about AppLovin that they

would be able to utilize?

577

00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,920

I think you have to have longer

videos in there.

578

00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,599

So your five second, 10 second

videos that work in meta

579

00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:22,799

are not going to work in AppLovin,

at least not at scale.

580

00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,000

You really can make an ad.

581

00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:28,160

You can make an advertisement

versus entertainment.

582

00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,559

I think that is the biggest mindset

shift you have to take

583

00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:34,799

when going from meta to AppLovin

of this is a commercial.

584

00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,160

Like, you should almost think about it more

like a TV ad than you should a meta ad.

585

00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:41,200

So, yes, you need to have a strong hook.

586

00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,359

You need to have all of your fundamentals

for advertising.

587

00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:47,759

But you don't have to do something crazy

to capture their attention with a hook

588

00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:50,160

because they're already

going to watch it.

589

00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,759

And you also have a full 30 seconds.

590

00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:55,160

So, like, I think the way to think about

the creative is how can I tell someone

591

00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,759

exactly everything they need to know

about my product in 30 seconds?

592

00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:01,000

So that they will click and buy and check

out today versus like meta.

593

00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,480

You're like, well, I got to

show them a video ad.

594

00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,519

I got to show them, you know, a carousel.

595

00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:05,880

I need to give them a sale ad.

596

00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,279

I have to give them an offer ad.

597

00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:11,279

Like, they need to see 15 different, you

know, touch points and ads throughout

598

00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,519

their customer journey before they're

going to click and buy.

599

00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,920

Versus you have 30 seconds of

undivided attention.

600

00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,119

How can you give them features

and benefits?

601

00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:23,440

The offer, the use cases, the you're selling

supplements, like the health care

602

00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,440

questions, the, you know, surprise

and delight, like

603

00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,279

anything you can tell them that would

convince them to buy.

604

00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:31,240

So if the right customer is watching

your ad, like what

605

00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,640

else do they need to know that they'll

just check out and buy?

606

00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,319

I mean, it really validates what

you said before, right?

607

00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:37,519

Like they're forced to watch it.

608

00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,640

So that's, they're, you're giving

them everything that they

609

00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,799

would want to know and your objection

busting along the way.

610

00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:47,599

So it's like, that's why you're have more

one day purchases because they've, they

611

00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:49,559

don't need, they've been forced

to see the whole thing.

612

00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:50,200

And they're like, you know what?

613

00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,440

That seems like a good idea.

614

00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,519

And boom, they can click on it

and get it right away.

615

00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:56,480

Okay. And are most of these, are

most of the ones that

616

00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,920

you're talking about, are they, are

they sub a hundred dollar AOV?

617

00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,799

Um, I have one product that's

two 50 and above.

618

00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:06,559

And then I have another that like, like

you said, Brad is, is a range.

619

00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:10,200

So it ranges usually from like,

I want to say 75

620

00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,599

to like three and 400 even

because it's apparel.

621

00:25:13,599 --> 00:25:15,720

So if you buy multiple sets

or you buy for

622

00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,039

your family to match your AOV

can get much higher.

623

00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:23,079

So in terms of, you know, a lot

of mindset shifting, I

624

00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:24,799

think it's really important that you're

talking about, right?

625

00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,039

All right. This is the mindset

of a meta advertiser.

626

00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:29,720

This is the mindset of what

you're going to

627

00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,599

need to think about as it comes

over to app love.

628

00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:33,119

And we've talked about some

of those things.

629

00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,640

What are other pieces that people would

need to prepare their clients for?

630

00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,039

Or, you know, in your case, the

internal client, you

631

00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:41,160

know, of like, this is look, this

is going to look different.

632

00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,079

It's going to be a little different.

633

00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:44,400

These are things to watch out for.

634

00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,160

This is how it, how, you know, we see it

performing differently, et cetera.

635

00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,640

This is what we can expect.

636

00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,519

Like anything like that, that can help

637

00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:54,240

people make sure to talk about

it the right way.

638

00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,319

In our case, AppLovin way under

reports the purchases.

639

00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:00,680

So if you validate with post-purchase

surveys, you

640

00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,920

validate with your traffic, you validate

with your MER rate,

641

00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,720

you validate with triple whale, 28-day

click and lifetime click,

642

00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,240

you will see there's a lot more

643

00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,079

incrementality to the platform than

they are reporting on.

644

00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:14,839

If you have a North Beam or a triple

645

00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:16,680

whale, I would recommend connecting

like sonar.

646

00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,200

I forget what North Beam's data

pushback is called,

647

00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,960

but we found that was helpful

too to the platform.

648

00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,000

I think there is a lot of cases where it

649

00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,680

does miss purchases, especially

as you scale.

650

00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,759

So we validate everything with

triple whale and

651

00:26:28,759 --> 00:26:32,160

I'll take, you know, 7, 14-day,

28-day windows

652

00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,279

and see how much lag there is happening

653

00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:37,920

from they did click and then

they did purchase.

654

00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:39,960

You have to also consider people that are

655

00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,160

watching this out and they're

not making any clicks

656

00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,279

because you may watch the whole video and

you're like, oh, that's cool.

657

00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,160

I'm going to go buy that later, but I

want to get back to Candy Crush.

658

00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,160

So you have the brand recognition to where

you may go search for it later,

659

00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,920

or you may see it on Meta then, or

you see it somewhere else.

660

00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,400

You're like, oh, wait, I know that brand.

661

00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,000

I saw that ad for it.

662

00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,039

I did want to buy that.

663

00:26:58,039 --> 00:26:59,640

And then you may click somewhere else.

664

00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,039

So I think if you can validate with

a third-party reporting tool,

665

00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:06,480

that will help you understand

that it's working well.

666

00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,839

For us in Q4 last year, I mean, we scaled from

zero to $80,000 a day in seven days.

667

00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,799

So it was very fast scale and my

company's bootstrapped.

668

00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:17,079

So there's no venture capital.

669

00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:19,400

So if this is not working, I have no job.

670

00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,400

So I think that was kind

of something people

671

00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,720

were pushing back to me on

Twitter and media

672

00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:23,960

bars.

673

00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,519

Like there's no way that's working.

674

00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:27,039

Like they're like, there's

no way, like there's

675

00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:28,559

no way you can spend that much

and you're making

676

00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:29,359

that much money.

677

00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:30,960

And I think it was me and like Sean from

678

00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,920

Ridge who were like, no, like

this is working.

679

00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,920

And like Sean's like, here's the check I

680

00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,960

wrote them for like a million

dollars the other

681

00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,359

week.

682

00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,039

You know, I'm not going to

write this check.

683

00:27:39,039 --> 00:27:39,599

It was not working.

684

00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,759

So, you know, when we scaled, we ended up

685

00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:44,160

spending a million dollars

in 30 days and our

686

00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,160

MER went down.

687

00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,279

Our revenue went up.

688

00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:47,599

This is an e-com site.

689

00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:50,039

I have no other traffic sources

other than the internet.

690

00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,599

So, I mean, there was no other way to prove

it other than, hey, this is working.

691

00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:56,039

I mean, there's a lot of metrics

that support it.

692

00:27:56,039 --> 00:27:58,599

And that maybe that SEO that you guys did

693

00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:01,319

four years ago really kicked

in all at one time.

694

00:28:01,319 --> 00:28:05,079

I mean, you know, no one knows the

confidence of an e-com bro on X.

695

00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:05,680

Of course.

696

00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:05,880

Right.

697

00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:06,319

Yes.

698

00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:06,799

Yes.

699

00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:07,319

Naturally.

700

00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:10,319

Like, yeah, there's no way, you know,

701

00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:12,960

there's no way you could know

something I don't.

702

00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,200

I guess it's interesting to just rethink

703

00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,799

the whole mix and the fact

that if it is, you

704

00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:20,559

kind of mentioned and you've

alluded to the

705

00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:22,839

fact that it's like a lot

of the audience is

706

00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:23,839

more female focused.

707

00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,319

Just has Apple and said this to you, like

708

00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:29,359

this is for more, you know,

more female focused

709

00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,200

or have you also tested across

like everyone

710

00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,960

and you see cohorts for males

going up as well?

711

00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,480

Because I've heard that rumblings of that,

but I don't know how real that is.

712

00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,519

And like, I know that guys played games

all the time, like too.

713

00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:41,799

Yeah.

714

00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:43,319

So I'm curious of your take on it.

715

00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:45,319

I think, I think there's

definitely a mix.

716

00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:47,599

I think it does a good job of finding

the correct demo.

717

00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:49,640

Like I think their algorithm

is very smart.

718

00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,920

So the correct demo that you're supposed

to find, it will find.

719

00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,680

I know True Classic who was

on there and they

720

00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,400

were talking about how on,

on Meta, they only

721

00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,079

would serve to, you know, males

buying for themselves.

722

00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,720

And once they got on Apple and they

723

00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,160

suddenly unlocked this new market

of women who were

724

00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,880

buying for their husbands or their, their

spouses or their friends.

725

00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,240

And it like opened up an

entire new segment

726

00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,960

of people that they were

never able to reach

727

00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,559

on Meta.

728

00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:15,720

So I think that's just an

interesting stat

729

00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,839

of, you know, maybe you're going to serve

730

00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:21,160

these ads on Apple and then hit a new demo

that you've never served to before.

731

00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,799

Meta has never found that pocket for you

732

00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,079

with your ads and it will find

a new pocket for

733

00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:27,720

you that, you know, is very incremental

to your business.

734

00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,440

Say in Q4 last year, I did

pull a report of

735

00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,799

like, okay, the whole time

we were on Apple

736

00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:36,079

and Meta for all of Q4 last year,

what was the overlap?

737

00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:37,240

Because I think that's another pushback

738

00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,720

where people are like, oh,

well, it's just going

739

00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,440

to retarget my Meta customers on there.

740

00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:44,200

Out of 41,000 orders, there was only a 5%

741

00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,519

overlap from people touching,

touching, touching

742

00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:52,359

Meta and touching Apple and there

was only a 5% overlap.

743

00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:54,920

If you pull Google, it's much larger.

744

00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,279

If I pull Meta and Google,

it's like nearly 50%.

745

00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:02,799

But between Apple and Meta, it

was very little overlap.

746

00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:07,279

So you're finding it's a whole new, I mean,

it's a whole new set of people, really.

747

00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:09,640

I mean, what is your sense

then of these people?

748

00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,200

Is it that they're people that are over

749

00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,519

social media, but they need

something to escape on

750

00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:14,960

their phone?

751

00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:19,000

And like, that's a place to reach them and

they're not looking because they already

752

00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,279

have like 7 billion emails that

they get regularly?

753

00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:24,440

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone

in e-com has

754

00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,200

never thought about the fact

that there are

755

00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,720

people that exist that aren't on social

media that will buy your product.

756

00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:30,680

I mean, let's be honest here.

757

00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,880

Everyone thinks, oh, I have to unlock Meta

and I'm going to unlock my business.

758

00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,799

And that is the only-

759

00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:35,160

Yeah, totally.

760

00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:35,680

Right.

761

00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,200

Yeah, yeah.

762

00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:36,640

Absolutely.

763

00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:39,680

And the fact that we, in the

month of October,

764

00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,559

I spent around, you know, over

a million dollars

765

00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,720

on ads and most of my spend went

to AppLovin over Meta.

766

00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,440

And that's not what things looked

like last year.

767

00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,160

So I think there is potential for a

lot of businesses on there.

768

00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,720

I think everyone's customers

exist off of Meta.

769

00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,720

They don't only live on Meta

and Instagram.

770

00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,200

And I think we're kind of in a world too,

771

00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,440

where people are kind of rejecting

social media

772

00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,759

in some ways too, where there's

a lot of noise on there.

773

00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,240

And I think we've seen that.

774

00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,039

And like with the political

landscape over

775

00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:12,720

the last 30, 60 days, even

of, you know, there's

776

00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,720

a lot of noise and people are like,

this is all negative.

777

00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,039

Like, I don't want to be on here.

778

00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:19,559

So if they're not on a social media app,

you got to reach them somewhere.

779

00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:22,160

So I think it's just a different

mindset too.

780

00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:24,400

And even if you're scaled

up on Meta already

781

00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,480

and you're spending, you know,

tens of thousands

782

00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,640

or millions a month on Meta,

like you could

783

00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,200

make even more and go on

this other platform

784

00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:32,960

and double your spend.

785

00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,279

I mean, we spent the exact

same on AppLovin

786

00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:37,720

in December that we had done

in December of

787

00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,240

last year and we matched spend.

788

00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,519

So, you know, we spent a million on each

789

00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,119

platform and saw huge growth

in the business.

790

00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:45,799

What's your sense of the inventory?

791

00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:47,279

Like you said, you've been

able to continue

792

00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:49,599

to scale and you continue

to scale like it's

793

00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:52,160

because, you know, when you, the reason I ask

that question is because when you get

794

00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,160

with Meta, you can tell when

you're bumping

795

00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,880

up an inventory because your

frequencies are

796

00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,279

going up and like, you know, results are

declining, et cetera, et cetera.

797

00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,519

And obviously nobody has infinite

798

00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:05,640

inventory, but you scaled a ton

and you're continuing

799

00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,960

to scale even in a competitive period.

800

00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,839

You know, we're recording

this in mid-November

801

00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:12,920

of 2025, which is not when

it's going to come

802

00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,279

out, which is why I bring this up.

803

00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:15,599

So it's like squeezing of inventory.

804

00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:17,039

When, how do you see that?

805

00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,279

Is it continuing to go up the

way that it has been?

806

00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,559

And is it, do you feel like, you know,

807

00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,799

you're, as you're increasing,

the results continue

808

00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:24,400

to hold?

809

00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,839

Yeah, that was what we definitely saw.

810

00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:26,519

Yeah.

811

00:32:26,519 --> 00:32:28,920

So last, and again, this is a very Q4

812

00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,519

brand that I'm spending incremental

dollars on,

813

00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:32,119

on Apple.

814

00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:34,400

And so we naturally scale

as it gets closer

815

00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,079

to Black Friday, we naturally

scale as it gets

816

00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:39,799

closer to Christmas and people buy

in those, in those trends.

817

00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:41,519

But the thing I found the

most interesting

818

00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,640

in Q4 of last year when we

onboarded with them

819

00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,279

was it just didn't break when you scaled.

820

00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:47,880

So like I said, we were, we're

going into Black Friday.

821

00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:48,680

We had just onboarded.

822

00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,160

We had, they basically spent through our

10K credit within like three days.

823

00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,480

So while I personally would have waited much

longer and been really like strategic,

824

00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:58,440

about spending 10K and make sure it was

825

00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,119

validated over like at least

two weeks, they blasted

826

00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:01,599

through it.

827

00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:04,039

And then we basically hit

the first day, you

828

00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:05,440

know, paying with our own

credit card where

829

00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,759

we were at like over $10,000 a day.

830

00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,519

And then, you know, the results held

and they were beating meta.

831

00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,880

And then it just came to, well, do you

want to double the budget?

832

00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,000

And I was like, sure, I guess we will.

833

00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,440

And then it was the day before

Black Friday

834

00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,960

and we had spent 40 grand

and it held, you

835

00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,720

know, by doubling and doubling

day over day.

836

00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,559

And it was like, just put it to 80.

837

00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:24,799

Like, let's see what happens.

838

00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:25,519

Will it break?

839

00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:26,240

And it didn't.

840

00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,759

It still hit the same ROAS number when

I hit the button from 40 to 80.

841

00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:32,079

So I think there's definitely a ceiling

842

00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:33,839

for every brand of how much

you can spend and

843

00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:35,240

how much creative you have

in there and how

844

00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,759

many different markets those

creatives will

845

00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:37,119

hit.

846

00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:39,200

But I think the ability

to scale is there.

847

00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,440

And I think once you get

to a certain point,

848

00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,640

like where we're at, it's

OK, how can we hit

849

00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,559

different markets with ads

that make sense?

850

00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:46,920

Same way that you would

you would approach

851

00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,920

meta of, OK, well, we've

already hit all of

852

00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,519

the people that, you know,

fit this this demo.

853

00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:52,759

Like, how can we hit another avatar?

854

00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,680

So then it becomes a creative play.

855

00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,319

But I think the ability to scale the model

is very smart to scale quickly.

856

00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:01,799

So first on like creative

testing, like, do

857

00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:03,839

you have a structure for

how you're testing

858

00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:06,039

creative in here or are you just

kind of like loading it up?

859

00:34:06,039 --> 00:34:07,920

Like, what's the what's the

methodology for

860

00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,400

like the actual structure

of creative testing,

861

00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:11,039

if any?

862

00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:14,280

I think something that's different about

Apple and compared to meta.

863

00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,800

So meta, we have a creative

testing campaign

864

00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,679

that is separate from our

scaling campaign.

865

00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:19,239

And I've tested this.

866

00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,960

And no matter what I would

do with meta, no

867

00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,559

matter how many new creatives

that I thought

868

00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:25,119

were amazing, I put against the winners,

it would never scale.

869

00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:27,119

And I'd be like stuck twiddling

my thumbs.

870

00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:28,840

So that's what I've always

seen with meta.

871

00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,480

And that's kind of how I run meta ads of

872

00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,280

keeping them separate and letting

them scale and get

873

00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,800

data and social proof and all of that.

874

00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,119

But Apple and you can put

a new creative in.

875

00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:38,559

And if it's a winner, it will rise to the

876

00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:40,480

top, even against ones that

have been in there

877

00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,079

for a year.

878

00:34:41,079 --> 00:34:43,320

In our case, like I uploaded new ads on

879

00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,960

Friday and they're currently

number five and six as

880

00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:46,559

spenders.

881

00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:48,760

And I have over 150 ads in that campaign.

882

00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:52,840

You can plump new ads right into your

existing campaign with the winners.

883

00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,960

If it's a winner, if it has enough data,

884

00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,559

it'll validate it and it'll

move it to the top.

885

00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,239

And I also have ones that

I put in there that

886

00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,599

I thought were OK and they

also didn't spend.

887

00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:03,719

And then I would test four different end

cards and it still wouldn't spend.

888

00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,639

And I'd be like, OK, this

is a smart model

889

00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:07,079

and I just need to get rid of this video.

890

00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,960

So I think that's one thing that is

891

00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,280

different with the platform is

you 100% can put, you

892

00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,159

know, brand new ads in there and they'll

rise to the top if they are good.

893

00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,400

Another thing I've noticed,

too, is it will not.

894

00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,599

Meta sometimes will pick

up an ad and it'll

895

00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:24,039

spend a lot on it and the

return will be poor

896

00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:25,639

because the engagement is so high.

897

00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,280

It won't do that with these.

898

00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,559

So I've never seen an ad in the top five

899

00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:33,000

to 20 that is like a zero

ROAS or like very

900

00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,559

poor ROAS or not hitting the goal.

901

00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:36,320

So that's also something

to consider of the

902

00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,320

risk to creative test is very

low because it's

903

00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,559

not going to spend a lot on something

that's not working.

904

00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:41,280

So winners win.

905

00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:45,280

Like that's that's like our mantra kind

of recently is like winners win.

906

00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,679

Like you don't have to like force it in.

907

00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:47,320

It just kind of pick.

908

00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,840

I mean, we've mostly seen

that on Meta, too.

909

00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:52,119

But it's good to know that

on the app loving

910

00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:53,800

side, like that's the that's

the case as well.

911

00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,880

So, um, OK, very helpful.

912

00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,559

You touched on like what you could do in

913

00:35:57,559 --> 00:35:59,360

videos that you might not be

able to do in other

914

00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,559

platforms, Meta specifically.

915

00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:02,800

Are there any like if you're

going to make

916

00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,679

these three ad creatives

or if you're going

917

00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:06,239

to make three ad creative,

like this is the

918

00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,519

format to follow that you

would suggest from

919

00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:09,360

like a video perspective.

920

00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,119

I want to talk about end cards and interactives

a ton, but video video first.

921

00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:14,840

I'm curious.

922

00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,360

Yeah, I think we found a lot of success

with asking questions as a hook.

923

00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,639

It's like, did you know that

you can do this?

924

00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:25,400

Or did you know that you can take a supplement

that helps your hair not fall out?

925

00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:27,800

So whatever your hook could be, I think

926

00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,280

asking a question kind of piques

curiosity and it

927

00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,039

also hits the right customers.

928

00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:34,760

So it's like if they're really

engaged with

929

00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,519

that and they'll click through,

I think that

930

00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:38,199

also piques interest for them to pay a

931

00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:39,719

little bit closer attention

because you're asking

932

00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,559

them a question instead

of like, here's my

933

00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:43,639

greatest and latest T-shirt

that is red and

934

00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:45,559

green and blue versus like, did you know

935

00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:48,199

that you can get a T-shirt

that is on sale or

936

00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:50,400

whatever your end goal is there?

937

00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:51,639

But yeah, I think starting

with a question

938

00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:53,480

has worked really well with

us across several

939

00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,079

different products.

940

00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,280

So we've really enjoyed doing those

and found success with those.

941

00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,519

I think also you can get

pretty brand heavy

942

00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:01,800

and like talk, like pump your

brand name several

943

00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:02,199

times.

944

00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:05,920

It's different than meta because if you think

about meta, even if you're watching a

945

00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,519

reel, you're going to see the brand name

946

00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:09,559

at the very top or YouTube,

you're going to

947

00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:10,599

see the brand name at the bottom.

948

00:37:11,079 --> 00:37:15,679

There's no brand name pumped into the creative

until the interactive at the end.

949

00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:18,599

So if they end up closing

the app, if they

950

00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:20,840

end up not clicking through,

if they end up

951

00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:23,639

clicking through and then

bouncing, but you

952

00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:25,719

just want to make sure your

brand name is really

953

00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,199

clear.

954

00:37:26,199 --> 00:37:28,719

So if you need to mention it six

times in the ad, go for it.

955

00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,639

Like we have one that is really just like

956

00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:32,719

people being like talking

about the brand name

957

00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,320

a hundred times with different clips

of like, I just got this.

958

00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,480

I just got this from this brand.

959

00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,400

So I think making the brand recognition

960

00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,360

really high because again,

you have 30 seconds.

961

00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,320

If you tell them about your product and

962

00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,719

then they go to Google and

they end up clicking

963

00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,159

on your competitor, you have not done

your job as a marketer.

964

00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:48,360

So that's something that's very

different as well.

965

00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:49,920

And like I said, the features

and benefits

966

00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,960

of reasons why you should

buy your product,

967

00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,679

you should pump in as much as you can.

968

00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:54,159

Sweet.

969

00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,000

I'm writing down.

970

00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:55,920

That's why I'm looking down.

971

00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:58,039

I'm literally taking notes as

we go through this.

972

00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:58,679

Okay.

973

00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,320

Let's swap over to end cards

for a second.

974

00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:03,719

Like what are the elements

of an end card?

975

00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,440

You mentioned something earlier,

which I hope

976

00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,360

people picked up on, which

was you can literally

977

00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,039

take, we did this, right?

978

00:38:09,079 --> 00:38:11,559

We, Black Friday sales went live at this

979

00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:14,159

time, by the time of recording

this, about a week

980

00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:15,639

ago for a bunch of brands.

981

00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:16,719

And yeah, same thing.

982

00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,000

Like I just made a new creative

set and swapped

983

00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,039

out the end cards to be Black

Friday specific.

984

00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,599

Those are some of the top spending pieces,

top spending end cards right now.

985

00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,280

I think their creative reporting

is interesting.

986

00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,199

I'm not sure if I love it or I hate

it, but it's interesting.

987

00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:31,559

But that's been, that's been

really helpful.

988

00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,599

So like, are there any elements of an end

989

00:38:33,599 --> 00:38:35,440

card that you think make a

successful end card

990

00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,159

and like any fun tests that you've

run end card specific?

991

00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:41,679

End cards without an offer have a 2% lower

click-through rate on average.

992

00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,519

Like proper 2%, like, like it's a 4%

versus a 2% click-through rate.

993

00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:48,400

Like that's the same exact creative.

994

00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,639

I just didn't put the 60%

off in the end card.

995

00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,079

So just make sure your end

cards have offers.

996

00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,920

Just, just do it.

997

00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,480

You'll see better results

regardless of the

998

00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,840

buys you get one free, you

know, whatever,

999

00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,719

whatever your offer is, make sure

it's on the end card.

1000

00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,679

I've had a lot of success with making

GIFs that are animated,

1001

00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:11,880

whether like the letters are popping or,

you know, the shop now is popping,

1002

00:39:12,119 --> 00:39:14,360

whether you have things flying

in that, you know,

1003

00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,159

even if it's just like a traditional

graphic ad,

1004

00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:17,800

or even if it's like, you

can even take some

1005

00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,880

of your best winners on meta

that are graphics

1006

00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,320

and add them as end cards and make them

interactive and make them animated.

1007

00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:26,960

I have a video background, but I'm not

an expert, you know, animator.

1008

00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,960

So if you have Canva, you can easily do

this with their animation settings.

1009

00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:32,920

So very simple to do.

1010

00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,079

And I think just having a little

bit of movement

1011

00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:37,679

does help instead of them just

staring at a graphic

1012

00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:40,840

for five seconds for it to, to

end and go to the DPA.

1013

00:39:41,039 --> 00:39:43,880

And then if you have a lot of variants or

1014

00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,079

you have a lot of variation

in your product,

1015

00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,559

you should add those in end cards so that

people can see something they like.

1016

00:39:50,559 --> 00:39:53,960

So if you're selling a shirt, put the

red, green, blue, purple,

1017

00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:57,079

like try to put as many color variants

in there as you can.

1018

00:39:57,079 --> 00:39:59,800

So someone who's like, well, I don't like

black, so I'm not going to click,

1019

00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,039

but they're like, oh, I really

liked the red one.

1020

00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:02,480

Same thing, you know, with jewelry.

1021

00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,360

If you have silver and gold, make sure

you put both because, you know,

1022

00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,800

someone who doesn't like gold jewelry may

not click because they like silver.

1023

00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:11,079

So things like that I found

have been helpful.

1024

00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:14,880

Usually USPs I've found aren't

as successful of like,

1025

00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,360

if you're just trying to put all

your USPs in an end card,

1026

00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:20,519

people aren't as interested

in reading all that.

1027

00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:22,320

But definitely having your,

1028

00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,559

your variations and your, your offer

are really important.

1029

00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:26,760

Cool.

1030

00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:28,880

And I mean, the USP thing is interesting,

1031

00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,079

but it's like the entire video probably

just like belabored the point, right?

1032

00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:33,840

Like at least they saw 30 seconds of it.

1033

00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:34,719

Maybe they saw the full 60.

1034

00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,000

And so that probably, that

probably covers

1035

00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,320

it, you know, pretty, pretty

thoroughly there.

1036

00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,880

It sounds measurement wise.

1037

00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,440

It sounds like you're doing

post-purchase survey

1038

00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,800

and you're looking at just general.

1039

00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:45,760

I mean, what other,

1040

00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,920

is there anything else that

you're doing in

1041

00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,679

reference to measurement

to know for sure?

1042

00:40:48,679 --> 00:40:52,239

Like, have you done specific codes only

there or anything like that?

1043

00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,639

We haven't done anything like that,

1044

00:40:53,639 --> 00:40:57,400

but I think post-purchase survey using longer

attribution windows and triple oil,

1045

00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:58,079

because you can,

1046

00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:00,679

you can even look in Apple

Evans platform too,

1047

00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:04,159

and see your lag time from

day zero to day 28,

1048

00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:04,880

like you can in meta.

1049

00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:06,280

So if you find out like,

1050

00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,440

hey, there's a 50% lag or

there's a 20% lag,

1051

00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,559

like you could even then be like,

1052

00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,320

okay, well, I'm okay taking a

20% lower ROAS knowing,

1053

00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:14,840

you know, within 714,

1054

00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:16,920

whatever your, your window is like,

1055

00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,840

then, you know, I know we're going to hit

that eventually because of the lag.

1056

00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,320

So that's another way to look at it.

1057

00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:21,679

If you only,

1058

00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,480

if you don't have a tool like triple

whale or North beam,

1059

00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,519

and you want to make sure it's working,

1060

00:41:26,519 --> 00:41:28,400

you could also look at those in platform

1061

00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:30,960

and see if you're getting some

delayed purchases.

1062

00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:31,599

Sure.

1063

00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:32,079

Yeah.

1064

00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,079

I mean, I want to ask about Instagram,

1065

00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:36,079

but this episode's about, about app love.

1066

00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:37,320

And so I won't ask about Instagram,

1067

00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:43,119

but I, I loved your tip the other

day about removing Instagram

1068

00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:44,639

and just targeting meta

1069

00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:47,039

and how Instagram was causing,

costing you.

1070

00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:47,760

Like what was it?

1071

00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:48,960

40% more or something.

1072

00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,079

It was almost double.

1073

00:41:50,079 --> 00:41:50,280

Yeah.

1074

00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:51,280

And that was over.

1075

00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,920

Like that was me looking at

the last six months.

1076

00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:55,039

So that was not,

1077

00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:56,880

Oh, I only looked at the last

30 days and it was,

1078

00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:57,559

it was double like,

1079

00:41:57,559 --> 00:41:58,599

no, like six months of data,

1080

00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:00,599

tens of thousands of dollars of spend.

1081

00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,800

And it, it was double.

1082

00:42:02,039 --> 00:42:03,920

And then we've seen a lot of growth

1083

00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,840

in that campaign since I

removed Instagram.

1084

00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:08,280

I mean, it's interesting.

1085

00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:09,519

It says something about your vertical.

1086

00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:10,159

Certainly.

1087

00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:12,239

Do you guys do any international

stuff now,

1088

00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,760

since you mentioned that or not,

1089

00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,119

not at this moment in time?

1090

00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:15,920

Yeah, we do.

1091

00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,039

Our business is 10 to 20% international.

1092

00:42:18,559 --> 00:42:19,840

And always has been.

1093

00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,199

And we've seen actually large scale

1094

00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:23,880

by adding the international

app love and ads.

1095

00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,119

And then we also run international

ads on meta as well.

1096

00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:28,320

And what do you get a sense

of what's going to be

1097

00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,519

continuing to innovate on the app love?

1098

00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:32,320

Like, are there pieces that, you know,

1099

00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,679

people are creating that they should

be thinking about?

1100

00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:34,920

Right.

1101

00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,559

I mean, obviously you talked

about creating

1102

00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:38,639

and utilizing animated GIFs,

1103

00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:40,000

but like other stuff like that,

1104

00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:40,559

that could be,

1105

00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:41,800

you should get better at this

1106

00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,320

because app love is going to continue

to do this as well.

1107

00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:45,239

I think creative.

1108

00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:46,719

I think one thing that's interesting

1109

00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,320

is you can make a lot of creative

1110

00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,519

and continue to scale as you

make more creative.

1111

00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,039

So I think that's something that,

1112

00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,840

I mean, we started on there at 80K a day

1113

00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:56,880

and I think we had 10 ads.

1114

00:42:57,519 --> 00:42:59,079

So there wasn't a lot in there

1115

00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:00,639

where everyone is screaming

about Andromeda

1116

00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:02,840

and you need 8,000 ads a week

1117

00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,119

to upload to the platform.

1118

00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:05,079

It's not the case there,

1119

00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:07,519

but I think the more creative

variation you make

1120

00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:08,639

and the more creatives you make,

1121

00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:11,039

you can tap into a little bit different

markets or demos.

1122

00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,599

So I think that's where you can

scale with the platform

1123

00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:15,760

as it gets smarter.

1124

00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,159

And I mean, it's collecting

more and more data

1125

00:43:18,159 --> 00:43:20,400

from more and more e-commerce

companies every day.

1126

00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,519

So it's going to get smarter.

1127

00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,480

You figure when, before October,

1128

00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,599

there were only 600 advertisers

in the platform

1129

00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:26,920

and that's not a lot.

1130

00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,440

Now that there's more,

1131

00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,719

I mean, there's hundreds of thousands

of e-commerce brands.

1132

00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,840

So the more data that this system

continues to read,

1133

00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:33,800

it should get smarter.

1134

00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,320

Yeah. Have you seen an impact

on your performance

1135

00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,440

from people flooding in or not so much?

1136

00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,320

No, nothing too bad.

1137

00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:43,159

CPMs have stayed pretty even

versus Meta's.

1138

00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:45,079

I mean, Meta's been increasing

since the summer,

1139

00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:46,079

at least on our end.

1140

00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,079

And we're like nearly double last year.

1141

00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,000

So that's been a bit difficult.

1142

00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:50,960

Yeah, I'm looking,

1143

00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,639

I'm just like looking at

my chart of spend

1144

00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:53,760

on a couple of app-level accounts.

1145

00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,280

And as you've been saying,

1146

00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:56,760

things like check out the lag time

1147

00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,320

and check out the CPM changes.

1148

00:43:58,519 --> 00:43:59,960

And like even into November so far,

1149

00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,400

CPM has literally not changed

at all from October,

1150

00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,840

which you would kind of expect

at this point

1151

00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,880

with everybody ripping their

Black Friday offers.

1152

00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,559

But yeah, no, it's encouraging.

1153

00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,159

I need to like go export

this all into a doc

1154

00:44:13,159 --> 00:44:15,079

and start ripping some app-level.

1155

00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,119

But now it's a little bit

more aggressive.

1156

00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:17,719

That's what everybody's going

to do with this episode.

1157

00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:18,559

I know.

1158

00:44:18,559 --> 00:44:19,760

I feel like I just have

a ton of insights.

1159

00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:20,719

I got a full page of notes.

1160

00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:21,599

Yeah.

1161

00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,199

Miranda, anything else that

you want to mention

1162

00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:24,039

for the good of the order?

1163

00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:24,480

Anybody?

1164

00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,480

We didn't really do the segment.

1165

00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,000

I don't know if you're a listener

to the show, Miranda.

1166

00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:28,800

It's okay if you're not.

1167

00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,119

But we always do a funny segment

1168

00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:33,039

where we like to create beef,

1169

00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:34,639

but pretend beef with people.

1170

00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:36,719

Is there anybody that you have beef with

1171

00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:37,199

that you're like,

1172

00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:38,800

why does this person always do this?

1173

00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,119

Anything?

1174

00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:39,880

I'll have beef.

1175

00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:40,800

I won't name names

1176

00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,599

because I feel like I don't

want to do that.

1177

00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:45,719

But I feel like there are

people that exist

1178

00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,320

that will just tell you to

make lots of creative

1179

00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,760

and plug them into all of the channels.

1180

00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:51,840

And that is not,

1181

00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:55,320

you will not find a lot of

success with that.

1182

00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,079

You may find success,

1183

00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,079

but you will not be able to scale

1184

00:44:58,079 --> 00:44:59,000

to large.

1185

00:44:59,000 --> 00:44:59,599

Not consistently.

1186

00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:00,360

Your numbers.

1187

00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:00,559

Yeah.

1188

00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:01,880

You're not going to be able to spend

1189

00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,519

a couple million a month on this platform

1190

00:45:03,519 --> 00:45:05,000

if you're just going to take

your meta creative

1191

00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:05,760

and plug it in.

1192

00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,119

You really do need to get

specific with it.

1193

00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:09,360

And it will pay off for you.

1194

00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:10,440

I mean, we've seen a lot of growth.

1195

00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:12,079

The brand has seen a lot of growth.

1196

00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:13,639

We've had a lot of really

good things happen

1197

00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:14,880

because of Apple 11.

1198

00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:18,039

And like you have to make platform

specific creative

1199

00:45:18,039 --> 00:45:20,320

if you want to be really successful

on a platform.

1200

00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,239

Meta creative exists

1201

00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,159

and there's meta agencies

1202

00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:24,880

because there's specific creative

1203

00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:25,800

that meta wants and needs

1204

00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:26,840

and will optimize for

1205

00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,880

and the way that users behave

on that platform.

1206

00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,599

The way that users behave on Pinterest

1207

00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:32,760

and Snapchat and Apple 11

are all different.

1208

00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,199

And if you just make the same thing

1209

00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:35,639

and export it everywhere,

1210

00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:37,480

it's not going to perform

at the same level

1211

00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:38,519

as if you really sat down

1212

00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,159

and made something for that user.

1213

00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:41,079

It's interesting you said,

1214

00:45:41,079 --> 00:45:42,280

that's actually what I forgot.

1215

00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,199

That's what I wanted to ask

1216

00:45:43,199 --> 00:45:44,639

was like, how specific?

1217

00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:45,840

Because we have a brand that sells,

1218

00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,280

I'd say it's like posture

adjacent things.

1219

00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:49,760

And like you could imagine an ad

1220

00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,360

where it's like the person

has slouched over.

1221

00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,559

It's like, is this how you're

sitting right now

1222

00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:53,519

as you play your game?

1223

00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:55,280

Or like, have you made creative

1224

00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,719

that specifically calls out?

1225

00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,119

Like, hey, sorry to interrupt your game.

1226

00:45:58,119 --> 00:45:58,679

This will be quick.

1227

00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,800

Like, have you done anything

like that extreme?

1228

00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:01,000

100%.

1229

00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,320

Yes, we've been like,

1230

00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,880

hey, stop watching your game for a second

1231

00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,360

and listen to, you know,

1232

00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,159

what we have to say.

1233

00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:08,159

Or hey gamers, like we've,

1234

00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:09,679

yeah, we've 100% called them out

1235

00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:10,639

during their game.

1236

00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:12,519

So again, you can't do that on meta.

1237

00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,320

But if you plug that creative into meta,

1238

00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:15,159

that's not going to work.

1239

00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,920

So that's where making a

bunch of creative

1240

00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,159

and just blasting it everywhere.

1241

00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:21,519

It's an affordable way to do things.

1242

00:46:21,519 --> 00:46:23,639

But I think if you spend an

extra hour or two

1243

00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:25,519

sitting down and really thinking

about the use case

1244

00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:27,039

and the user on the platform,

1245

00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:28,280

you're going to have way more success.

1246

00:46:28,639 --> 00:46:30,360

And again, if you're, you know,

1247

00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:31,239

$100 million brand

1248

00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,360

and you have 50,000 creative

1249

00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:34,440

that are in meta already,

1250

00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,119

you'll probably be able to

plug some stuff in

1251

00:46:36,119 --> 00:46:37,599

and it's going to work really

well on Apple 11.

1252

00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:41,280

If you're a 10 to $50 million brand,

1253

00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:42,400

like you definitely need to sit down

1254

00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:43,960

and spend a little bit more time

1255

00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,079

thinking about the user.

1256

00:46:45,079 --> 00:46:46,559

And that applies to Snapchat

and Pinterest

1257

00:46:46,559 --> 00:46:47,360

and every other,

1258

00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:49,239

if you want to diversify

your ad channels,

1259

00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,400

like that applies to everything else.

1260

00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:51,599

Yeah, it's great feedback.

1261

00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,800

Miranda, I appreciate your

time and joining us.

1262

00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,519

And again, everyone who is

listening to this,

1263

00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:57,360

you need to follow Miranda.

1264

00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:58,760

We'll put it in the show notes,

1265

00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:59,880

her X account,

1266

00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,880

where you can find her good insights.

1267

00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,320

And thank you again for your time.

1268

00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:09,960

This episode is brought to you by

1269

00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,519

Brad's Company Work Marketing.

1270

00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,960

If you need a D2C marketing agency,

1271

00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,159

let me tell you, Homestead is great,

1272

00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,960

but work marketing is also fantastic.

1273

00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:20,880

And let me tell you,

1274

00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:23,800

you aren't going to find

friendlier people

1275

00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,800

out there in the e-commerce space.

1276

00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,480

So we decided to do these little ads

1277

00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:30,440

for each other's companies.

1278

00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,800

So hopefully you find it interesting.

1279

00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,559

But seriously, great team

at work marketing,

1280

00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:34,760

very smart.

1281

00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:37,280

Brad and Jordan are incredibly dialed in.

1282

00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:38,800

I just gave them a lead,

1283

00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,440

already made this brand.

1284

00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,519

I gave them like,

1285

00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:42,400

I don't even know,

1286

00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,679

double revenue that they had

1287

00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:45,800

the previous month or something.

1288

00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:46,760

So, you know,

1289

00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:49,599

it's very exciting to be connected

with Brad.

1290

00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:51,320

And if you need a great agency,

1291

00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:52,320

there's really no one better.

1292

00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,880

Zach, anything to comment

on work marketing?

1293

00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:55,800

Yeah, I mean,

1294

00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:56,800

if you want an agency

1295

00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,639

that cares about your business

1296

00:47:58,679 --> 00:47:59,599

much more than they care

1297

00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:00,559

about their own website,

1298

00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:02,320

I just tried to load workmarketing.com

1299

00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:02,920

and it was broken.

1300

00:48:03,519 --> 00:48:04,679

So they're definitely going to give

1301

00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,239

more of a shit about your business

1302

00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,079

than their own.

1303

00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:08,599

So I highly recommend Brad

1304

00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:09,679

and the team over at work.

1305

00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:10,360

They've been incredible.

1306

00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:11,880

We've referred a lot of business

1307

00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,039

over to them as well.

1308

00:48:13,039 --> 00:48:13,599

Really, really good

1309

00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:15,079

as far as like cracking funnels

1310

00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:17,360

and figuring out like rapid

growth for brands.

1311

00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:19,079

So I highly recommend these guys.

1312

00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,880

The only way that we grow this podcast

1313

00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,679

is by you sharing it with your friends.

1314

00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:29,079

Honestly,

1315

00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:29,920

like reviews kind of

1316

00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,559

don't really mean anything

too much anymore.

1317

00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:32,599

They're really meaningful,

1318

00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:33,679

but they don't do a lot

1319

00:48:33,679 --> 00:48:34,920

for the growth of the podcast.

1320

00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,199

And so sharing YouTube links,

1321

00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:38,559

sharing Spotify links,

1322

00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:39,679

sharing Apple,

1323

00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,199

whatever we call it

1324

00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:42,559

under the podcast app now,

1325

00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,039

anything you can share,

1326

00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,239

the better we're going to be.

1327

00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:47,320

Guys, anything else

1328

00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:48,079

you want to say on this?

1329

00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,960

Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube.

1330

00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:51,599

Rack up those views for us.

1331

00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:52,440

We'd love to see it.

1332

00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,039

And then subscribe.

1333

00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:54,800

Make sure to subscribe on

YouTube as well.

1334

00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,079

And I relentlessly refresh

1335

00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:56,840

the YouTube comments

1336

00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,239

because it dictates my mental health

1337

00:48:58,239 --> 00:48:58,719

for the day.

1338

00:48:58,719 --> 00:48:59,559

So please say something nice

1339

00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:00,159

about all of us.

1340

00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:02,440

Thank you, everyone.

1341

00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:03,480

Thanks for listening.

1342

00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:04,000

Honestly.

Brad Ploch

New Year New Ad Platform: A Look At AppLovin

Full Transcript

How To Use AI To Win In Marketing