How To Use AI To Win In Marketing
This episode is basically a tactical hands-on walkthrough for using AI in creative, without turning your ad account into generic “AI slop.”
Will Sartourious, owner of Selfmade.co, an agency that focuses on AI personas and AI performance creatives, joins us to lead us through his AI creative process and the importance of AI adoption in the social creative space. He primarily lumps current AI creative usage into two buckets:
Type 1: “Clone this ad for me.” Fast volume, but you drift into sameness.
Type 2: Use AI to do the thinking work (research, synthesis, structure), then let humans do the “mushy middle” that differentiates. He’s big on building PAM clusters (Persona–Angle–Motivation) so strategists aren’t winging it and you can see where your creative gaps are before you ship more ads.
From here we get into the nitty gritty of his current workflows:Static → GIF/video: why GIFs often beat statics in clean A/Bs, and how to generate animated variants fast.
Tool split: Will uses Claude for more “creative” thinking, but uses ChatGPT specifically because it reads on-ad copy more reliably critical when your prompt needs to include every word that appears on the creative.
Prompt iteration loop: generate → inspect output → feed output back in → ask for prompt correction (ex: “the copy disappears—fix it so it stays on screen”).
Midjourney reality check: great for vibes/backdrops and motion experiments, but “sucks at product rendering,” so you generate the scene and then swap in the real product using other tools.
We also dive into these Key takeaways
How to find the missing creative angles in your account before spending another dollar.
Cut out the Middle man: How you can stop using stock photos entirely with AI, without the brand even noticing.
The fastest way to turn a winning static into a GIF without opening any editing software.
Why including every word of on-ad copy in the prompt matters more than being a “prompt genius”.
Why this AI tool is a secret weapon for AI creativity (It's literally 10X better than ChatGPT).
The feedback-loop method to improve prompts without manually tweaking yourself into madness (we've all been here).
The 1 tip that will make your AI people look less “plastic” and more realistic (texture/pores/realism)
How Will used Sore to close a client live mid-call and how you can too.
This episode is sponsored by Northbeam, the marketing attribution platform that we love here at Scalability School. If you’re ready to cut through the noise, stop guessing, and actually see which ads are driving your business, book a demo at www.northbeam.io/demo, and tell them Scalability School sent you. Join the club.
To connect with Will Sartorious, you can follow him on x at https://x.com/will_sartorius
or www.Selfmade.co
To connect with Andrew Foxwell send an email Andrew@foxwelldigital.com
To connect with Brad Ploch send him a DM at https://x.com/brad_ploch
To connect with Zach Stuck send him a DM at https://x.com/zachmstuck
Learn More about the Foxwell Founders Community at https://foxwellfounders.com/
Full Transcript
(00:01) For the foreseeable future, in order to differentiate, you need that sort of mushy middle human ground. Use these tools to scrape the internet constantly for your content and constantly be putting that into Claude, not GBT, to analyze. And we always sort of call them Pam clusters, persona, angle, motivation.
(00:19) Like for every persona we're generating, we want to know which angles to utilize and under each of those angles, which motivations to ultimately utilize. I think people get so bogged down with their prompts and I think that's the wrong mentality to have. I'm sure your prompt is fine. That's why when you subscribe to MidJourney or, you know, Veo 3.
(00:33) 1, I think it's like the Google ultra subscription. You can use your prompt unlimited amount of times and I promise you, you will get something that is in the ballpark of what you're looking for. Editors are stuck in their ways. You know, your strategists are sort of stuck in your ways. So, we did a sort of a a competition for each model.
(00:54) So we would say like take your favorite statics, animate it, let's present in four weeks and we're going to judge it and whoever gets, you know, the best output gets, you know, monetary incentive and then we sort of leveled that up. Let's create a video. And then the ending result was creating a full ad. And now let's take a listen to the Scalability School podcast.
(01:17) All right, welcome to episode 17 of the Scalability School podcast. Almost 20 almost 20 episodes get to say episodes of listeners. More episodes than listeners. There it is. That's a new tagline. That's really good. I actually did see that we just surpassed a big number of downloads. I'm not going to share it because it's private information. Uh only available to our to our illustrious sponsors.
(01:39) But it's but it's like oh wow. Like this is real and it's not inflated either. We haven't paid for anything. You know, some of these some of these places do that which we're not doing. So that's why we only have tens of listeners, but the people that are listening are real people. And we have we're very big on YouTube.
(01:57) I don't know if you ever heard of YouTube, but we're big on there as well. By the way, special guest today, AI expert, CEO of Self-Made, Will Sartorius. Will, glad to have you. Yeah, thanks for having me. Stoked to uh in Will also the AI captain of the Foxville Founders membership. So yeah, unofficial mod of the channel. That's right. That's right. So yeah, will basically we had presentations in Portland.
(02:22) You weren't there for our Foxville founders meet up, Brad, but basically everybody, we had all these different tables of like, you know, Q4 creative, you know, you could get an audit and like Wills was about AI and there was like the majority of folks were around Will's table the entire time looking at what he was creating. So that's what we brought to this podcast. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Stoked to be on for sure.
(02:42) And I feel like we should like put a uh put a counter up like the number of times we say Andromeda, you know, if you're listening, you take a shot. Hell yeah. Yeah. I got my electrolytes right here, so I'm ready to I'm ready to roll. Yeah.
(02:58) Um but like you know, for us where this sort of entire impetus behind getting really good at creative through AI came from was well one at the front end, we sort of perfected using social listening to collect, you know, Facebook comments, subreddit comments, Twitter, etc. like built our own Shopify scraper. And so like now you can plug in a brand and we can pull all this information like core personas, core motivators, angles, etc.
(03:18) So that was like the front end uh that I developed about a year ago. I think I talked about that in Amsterdam. And now I was like, okay, so the front end is done. Now we need to sort of figure out the back end. Like how can we take the content that we're creating and sort of amplify it, right? And there's a lot of different ways to go about this.
(03:37) There's sort of like one sort of allstar flow that I like to talk about, but there's also a lot of little tweaks you can do which are probably best for specific use cases. Whether it's you have an image and you just like it's 10 p.m. your editor's offline and you just like need to resize it, but you only have the PNG. There's a solution for that.
(03:54) You have statics that are maybe fatiguing and you just like want to convert them to GIF, add a little animation. CPMs on GIFs we always see being a lot better than statics even for the same image. Generally in a onetoone AB tests, GIFs will generally always outperform statics. So just like adding a little sort of fuel to the fire, that works too. I'm not a big clone ads guy.
(04:15) Uh I know folks like to do that and like sort of take competitors and like insert their product. Like that's never something I've wanted to do. But we can sort of talk about a flow of like finding inspiration on Pinterest, converting that to midjourney, adding your product into that image. And then that is sort of like how I like to clone ads because like at the end of the day where AI is really helpful is again it's a barbell. It's like it's setting the foundation for strategists like which persona, angle, motivation
(04:38) do you want to focus on? And then it's amplifying existing content. like that messy mushy middle I feel like is so innately human and like unless you want to just revert to the mean and just like do what everyone else is doing and contribute to you know the sort of slot parade you know by all means but like I don't think any of us on this call or you know our team are going are aiming to do that um you know to that end like I talked to my team I sort of about like type one versus type two
(05:03) thinking like Dan Conorman you know RIP if you haven't read thinking fast and slow you should pick it up right now it's the most amazing book I've ever read but Like obviously type one thinking is just like I my brain is shut down. I'm just on autopilot. Type two is very much more so I'm being sort of thoughtful in my approach.
(05:23) And I feel like a lot of folks use AI for type one thinking like I just going to [ __ ] write this email like I'm just going to do this or like oh you know I need a concept GPT help me write a concept or what have you. And again like if you want to sort of revert to the mean and just like be average like do that. But like if you can be thoughtful about your AI workflow and again like amplifying existing content and you know sort of human messy thought then you're going to be in a much better place.
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(07:20) So, Northbeam click plus deterministic views is live now. Head over to northbeam.io/demo to book a walkthrough and tell them we at scalability school. Can you So, can you give like an So, you gave a couple examples of type one, which was like, okay, this is the email I got. I I yapped into GPT with my my what I think I'm going to respond with.
(07:41) Can you make me sound like less of a dick? And then I kind of hit send. So, that's maybe an example of type one. Maybe you can give an example of of like where people are using that in in the creative process. But then like type two which is maybe some of the examples that we're going to go through but because I know in like the original version of your notes here is like that was a big distinction for you to go through.
(08:00) Um so maybe we spend just a couple minutes like giving some examples before we dive into some of the workloads that you have. Yeah, no doubt. So I would say type one is clone this ad. For me it's you know taking someone else's content that may not be applicable to you at all and just effectively using that as your own. like maybe creative volume is what you're after and you don't really care about anything else.
(08:21) By all means do that where again like type two sort of comes in. It's like you can outsource a lot of thinking to AI but I do think at least today and and you know for the foreseeable future in order to differentiate you need that sort of mushy middle human ground. But like use Appify, you know, use Gigabrain. Use these tools to scrape the internet constantly for your content and constantly be putting that into Claude, not GBT to analyze. And we always sort of call them PAM clusters, persona, angle, motivation.
(08:47) Like for every persona we're generating, we want to know which angles to utilize and under each of those angles, which motivations to ultimately utilize. And so that framework is created for our strategist internally, right? And so then we say, "Okay, strategist A, here's your persona, angle, and motivation. Run wild." Right? Like we've effectively now created a swim lane.
(09:07) Or, you know, a better metaphor is we've put the gutters down in your bowling lane. You know, you can't sort of shoot a gutterball now. We know that this is going to resonate with consumers. But now you have these frameworks. Create a bigger swing, right? Or, you know, conversely, look at the ad account.
(09:25) Maybe with this persona angle motivation combination, we haven't done an ugly ad or maybe we haven't done like a three reasons why or we haven't talked about that in a founder interview and we need to get the founder on the horn and jam with them about it, right? So, it's like create these lanes beforehand using AI.
(09:41) Have the humans sort of pinpoint like where we're missing and like that hole will be filled with AI. I don't doubt that. Maybe give it 6 months, 12 months, like we're going to be able to identify where the holes are in your creative output. Like right now that's an innately human thing and then from there like do you know sort of do the work right use editors do post-production work and then like once you sort of have something that you're ready to go uh you know amplify that with AI.
(10:08) I will say one thing that we're trying to to do and we've mandated internally is we can't use stock anymore. No stock photos. You know I got like this dispute with artlist.io. They were like, "We're going to charge you 10K to like, you know, freaking uh, you know, up your license." And I was like, "All right, Sara sucker." Like, you know, eggs on your face, not mine.
(10:30) Like, I was probably going to continue paying, you know, 120 bucks a month. But every piece of content that we're creating that would be stock is now AI, right? Because now we can create stock with actually the product in it. And, you know, using tools like Cream, you can actually make the people look a lot less plasticky. And now that Veo 3.1 has start and end frames, like the world is your oyster.
(10:51) You can create whatever content you want. And so like my long-term strategy, and I think this should be really anyone's long-term strategy, is that like you on your teams have sort of like creative visionaries, right? Someone who's like thinking like this is a sort of vision. This is where we need to go.
(11:07) And then we we hire people to just where their entire job is to generate B-roll for that brand, right? just using VO 3.1, using Nano Banana, using Cream. And like now our editors have this plethora of B-roll that they can utilize that looks legit. And you know, if you get clients saying, "I'm averse to using AI," like we get this all the time. And we're like, "Okay, cool.
(11:28) Let's just do one for you and we'll prove you wrong, right?" And like we have clients that are doing like around 5, six million a month that were extremely averse to using AI. We did a video for them and they're like, "So where did you guys shoot this?" And we're like, "Gotcha.
(11:44) " So, it was just like one of these instances where, you know, again, I don't want to knock on there is a massive value ad to be, you know, going shooting content, but like if I just need a shot of me picking up this coffee cup, you know, or I, you know, Brad, maybe I needed you picking up that coffee cup, it's going to be a lot easier for me to just do it myself. Yeah.
(12:04) You know, it's funny you mentioned that because literally within the last 48 like prior to our conversation, but right like over the last 48 hours, we've had somebody just like as a role test it out just like building a B-roll library with with whatever tools all all of the tools I'm sure we're about to talk about. And it yeah, I'm sure it'll be an iterative process to hear it out.
(12:24) But selfishly, that's why I was even more excited to talk is like we're we're playing with this now a little bit more than we have been. And uh I'm going to steal some of this for myself. Yeah, there's a lot that we can there's I think the frameworks already that you've gone through will are really helpful.
(12:38) I mean I think a lot of it is so much of this centers on people talking about Andromeda and you know there has to be not just creative diversity but now it's like you know we had a question in the founders community this morning of like all right look how are you even reworking your creative department to make because this requires more work now right that we have to come up with really net new ideas and not just iterations necessarily upon things so I think we all feel that squeeze and obviously AI can help us get there and make that a lot easier for us so let's talk about so you have you have a number of different workflows to go through. Um so static
(13:09) the first one you're talking about is static to I believe you pronounce it GIF like the peanut butter. Um I'm a GIF guy. I'm a GIF personally. I don't know. Of course I've always been I've always been a GIF guy. I just I just still love calling it GIF. Uh so it's that using MidJourney. So how does this one work in your opinion? And by the way if you're not listening if you if you're not watching this on YouTube this is also is going to maybe even do some screen sharing here.
(13:33) And if you're on YouTube do if you're if you're on YouTube.com you'll be able to see this live but otherwise if not uh or you'll be able to see this recorded if not Will can talk about it and talk through Yeah sure. And yeah um more than happy to sort of talk through my process as I go through. And one thing to sort of add you know Brad you mentioned that like you're building sort of a team around this.
(13:54) I think that was the number one question I got in Portland is like how are you getting your team to do this? Because it's a lot it's very easy to be an agency owner and be like guys use these AI tools and everyone's going to be you know sort of flip you the bird be like why would I do that like that sounds like a huge pain right editors are stuck in their ways you know your strategists are sort of stuck in your ways so we did a sort of a a competition for each model so we would say like exactly what we're sort of talking about now it's like okay we're going to
(14:19) start with midjourney take your favorite statics animate it let's present in four weeks we're going to judge it and whoever gets you know the best output gets it's, you know, monetary incentive. And then we sort of leveled that up. Okay, take that gift, now let's put it into VO3. Let's create a video.
(14:37) And then the ending result was creating a full ad, right? And like that was a great way to get buyin from everyone into the process. And it made it a lot more fun, too, cuz like we created teams. Like it was just like there was a lot of team spirit. So it was that was an unlock for me because I was just like, why are we not using this more? And then someone on our team much smarter than me suggested doing that.
(14:56) So, can I ask some really sorry I know we're like distracting from the workflow stuff which I'm very excited to get into, but do you feel like you have to like very directly address like your perception of what you think AI is going to do to their jobs to help get over that as well? Because like we have we have a bunch of designers on our team.
(15:09) It's like they see the tools and they're like anxious about what that means for them. And basically I tell them is like if you can figure out how to use this like you're you're replacing yourself and you continue to be here. It's like you're just you're just getting better and you're you're you're leveling up in what you do. The same goes for me by the way.
(15:24) There's a bunch of tools that be able to do what I'm doing. You know, I used to spend we used to spend hours building ads. Now we have tools like ad manage that it takes three seconds to launch 50 ad, you know. So it's like that's perpetually happenings. Um do you feel like that's the case for you? Like do you have to do you find yourself explaining this to to your team? Totally.
(15:40) I mean I think I like to sort of belabor the pain points that certain folks are feeling like we don't have footage of this or blah like can we get the the client to send us this? It's like well we can but like now you have that sort of ability to do it yourself. I also will say like and this may be sort of like a hot take. I actually think editors are going to becoming increasingly more important and I think sort of the top offunnel again like the and when I when I say top of funnel I really mean like the personas angle motivation like social listening discovery like that is going to be AI. So, like I actually think the
(16:13) work up here is going to be more AI. The work down here will cuz like if you I don't know if you guys have played with Sora, but like it's just like vibes, right? You sort of hope you get something right.
(16:28) If you try to do like an intricate prompt, godspeed, but if you get something that's like close and you have a good editor, game over, right? And so that's what I always sort of say to my team like you know you are sort of filling in the cracks and we are solving the pain points that you know you have brought up many times in the past. Cool. And everyone's creating something. Everyone's bringing something new to the table every week.
(16:48) And it's just like it's a great way to get folks like more comfortable with these tools. And then ultimately like I said initially our goal is to have creative sort of visionaries. This is the whole ad I want to create. I want to create a 30 secondond ad of this man going hunting and then he comes home to his family, presents the deer on the table, the kids eat, you know, whatever.
(17:09) And now our team's going to be way more comfortable creating that, right? And so like I don't want to be confined anymore by the existing content we have on hand. I want our team to be able to sort of think, you know, not just outside of the box, you know, sort of outside of any parameter that had existed previously. A box, what is bigger than a box? I don't know. Uh whatever, you know, the prism. universe. Yeah, the universe.
(17:31) I don't know. Prism. That's that's that's that's electric. I like that. Yeah. Think outside the prism. Uh, you know, sort of Pink Floyd style. Go to that next level. And so, we want to have a world where I I have this big lofty vision for an ad.
(17:48) Now, our our our editors coming in and saying like, "Okay, cool. Like, this is fun as hell. Like, this is up to me to like come up with this." And like the the visionaries and the visions are not going to be too prescriptive. So, like that is where we're heading. Candidly, you know, for for me and a few others on my team, like this process is quick, right? Like I could probably do some B-roll and that I feel really comfortable with in like 20 minutes.
(18:12) For some someone else that's new to this, it may take them like 4 hours, right? So, like that is like a painstaking process. It's exhausting, right? So, how do you sort of overcome that hurdle? And what we've done is like for our clients, it's like we're not going to do four AI videos for them a month. We're going to do one just so you can get a little bit more comfortable. And it's just sort of like, you know, probably a bad analogy, but put it the tote in the water slowly start heating it up so people get more and more comfortable, you know, with getting boiled, I guess, but you know, they're going to hop out. They're going to be fine. Yeah. I mean,
(18:39) I think it's I think it's you know, a member asked me at the meetup that, you know, look, I we have we have two people that are fully dedicated to this on our creative team. This is an agency person. this podcast is for seven and eight figure brand owners, but I think it's I think it's important nonetheless, you know, how they're fully dedicated to this.
(18:57) Everyone was like, "Wow, we're really jealous of that, right?" And and I actually think that's okay, but I actually think that's not necessarily the greatest idea because I think you you want to not have this siloed and you want to have everybody kind of talking about be integrated as much as possible and be testing. And I think that another piece that you didn't mention, maybe you're doing this, is that you want to incentivize people to do this, right? You want to incentivize like, hey, who comes out with the coolest concept? you know, you are going to get a financial bonus side of this. And I think
(19:19) that if you have people in house or you yourself as the founder are creating these ads, you know, giving yourself a half an hour a day to screw around with this, right? Like, and and if you're utilizing Will's workflows, you could see all that's happening is not necessarily dependent upon one tool alone.
(19:35) It's just a number of different things where you're going back and forth between them and refining the outputs and going from there. And, you know, I think if you dedicate some time over a couple, you know, couple weeks, you're going to get pretty good at this stuff. even if it's 30 minutes a day. Um, I mean, that's what I tell myself about weightlifting. I'm like, it's it's just 60 minutes, you know, and over time I'm going to get big like Brad.
(19:55) But anyway, so I think that's I think that's important. I think that uh how do you recommend that people continue to stay on top of this stuff because it's obviously changing super rapidly, like you know, I feel like every other day there's some new thing. How do you recommend people stay on up to date with it? I mean, obviously your newsletter is a place they can go to, which we can we can link in the show notes and stuff, but where what are other places as well? Yeah, obviously my Friday newsletter, shameless plug, is you all new models. I I always go through my workflows there. Um, and I,
(20:21) you know, just sort of backtrack for one second. How do like you get people excited? I promise you, if you give your team unlimited access to MidJourney, they will have so much fun that they're going to sort of like almost forget about their other work. Like we have our team going in there and constantly just like playing around with it because it really is so much fun.
(20:38) But like I obviously when you're getting much more analytical with a process like with Nano Banana Bayo 3.1 it's like very prescriptive midjourney again I can't recommend everyone subscribing their team to it you know create a group email and this is probably not kosher but like you know have everyone go onto that group me email it's $60 a month and everyone can request as much as they want and like that is a great sort of starting point. So uh yeah sorry what was your second question? My second
(21:04) question is just like talking about where else people can go to keep up to date on stuff. Yeah, for sure. I can like I I can share a few Twitter handles that I follow that you know sort of talk about the first thing I do when a new model is released is obviously I go to Twitter and I say like okay what use cases are people talking about? So it goes Veo 3.1 and so Veo 3.
(21:26) 1 dropped the day before we were in Portland before I was supposed to do this you know do a demo. I was like, "Shit." Okay. And so I went to Twitter and I sort of figured out like what are the use cases here? Like if someone says they're building an NA n flow and they're pumping out a thousand creatives, block that person. N8 is a great tool for in-house workflows.
(21:45) It is a [ __ ] tool for creative output. I'm sorry because like you see our process, right? Like we have to refine the image or the video at every single stage to get something that's actually workable. you are adding so much risk in saying like I'm gonna use the first image in mid Journey generates and I'm gonna use the first nanobanana image and I'm gonna use the first Veo 3.
(22:05) 1 image and like that's going to be your output right well I don't update I never put less than a thousand ads in when I update any campaign minimum it's always a minimum thousand yeah it's it's just the way that I do it one one ASC per uh you know $1 a piece that's where I'm at a 0.1 row as target and just let it rip. Yeah, exactly.
(22:33) So, uh a final question that I have will on a lot of this is um you you foresee that that the right now you're you're manually kind of plugging and playing. You foresee that a lot of this is this like in what a year is all this is going to be all in one. You're not going to have to do this or like what's the time frame on this? Yeah, of course. Like we're all hypothesizing here.
(22:52) I would say if if you don't learn these flows like now, you're going to be a little left behind. I would say like get really good at these workflows now. In 6 months, maybe a year, the barrier to entry is going to be zero. You'll be able to do effectively all of this on, you know, what will be Americans WeChat. I don't know who's going to build it, but like that is going to sort of, you know, be what exists.
(23:10) And like I would be remiss to not even talk about, you know, the Open AI browser that was just released right now. You can sort of just say buy me all these different things. So like maybe creative will have less of relevance in the future in and of itself, right? So like that is GTM LLM optimization which is like a completely different animal.
(23:27) But at the end of the day like if you are generating creative right now like I was I read an article the other day that like Coca-Cola paid $100,000 for an ad that was generated with Veo 3.1. So you know sadly we're not contracted with Coca-Cola.
(23:46) But what I can tell you is that like if you want to sign new clients and you want to really impress big brands, do this now and you will lock them in. If you are on a sales call, go into sora.com, take their product, say generate a UGC ad with this product, show it to them on that call and they're going to sign. Like we do this all the time.
(24:03) The idea is that like you right now the closer the closer move always be closing. One call is good stuff. This is good stuff. I like Anyway, keep going. Sorry I interrupt you. Yeah. No, all good. So, like I will say like if you like these these enterprise companies and these larger companies know they need to be good at AI, right? They know they're probably falling behind.
(24:25) And so like if you lock in an annual contract or six-month contract now when that sort of paradigm shifts and the barrier to entry becomes lower, you're going to be already going to be so much further ahead than ever anyone else that's just joining when that sort of barrier to entry is lower because you're going to know, you know, how to prescribe certain elements even within a low lower barrier to entry, right? And like goes back to sort of type one, type two thinking, uh, and type one, type two sort of AI.
(24:50) Like a lot of people are going to be generating a lot of slop. If you know how to use these AI tools to not generate slop and actually generate something thoughtful with actual, you know, creative prompting and and strategy behind it, like you're going to be eons ahead. Like when that barrier to entry, the slop gates is open. You know, misinformation is going to be rampant.
(25:08) We're not going to know what's up and down. But what we will know is that like differentiated content that doesn't fit that mold will rise to the top and ultimately win. Where where can I get better prompting? Yeah. How do I get better prompting? Again, like I again, this is probably a hot take, but I don't think you need to really be a good prompter.
(25:28) You're just asking GPT, hey, this is what I'm going to do. Write a prompt for this. Exactly. And that's why like I I think people get so bogged down with their prompts. And I think that's the wrong mentality to have. I'm sure your prompt is fine. That's why when you subscribe to midjourney or you know Veo 3.1 I think it's like the Google ultra subscription you can use your prompt unlimited amount of times and I promise you you will get something that is in the ballpark of what you're looking for or conversely you know go
(25:53) to Sora and like you know just vibe it like that's an option as well but like I think people just get too hung up on when it comes to creative output people get too hung up on prompting obviously briefing is a completely different animal where prompting actually matters a lot more But yeah, with creative output, like don't overthink it.
(26:14) The only the only thing that's important and and I can stop my rant after this. You know, nano banana, cdream, midjourney, textbased prompts are fine. If you're doing Veo 3.1, JSON prompts work a lot better. So when you're when you're talking to GPT5 ask for a JSON output JS O N if you're not familiar you probably won't recognize like this the style if you're not familiar with HTML or coding but like use that and then like you can tweak that.
(26:43) So rather than trying to engineer your prompt yourself, put your JSON prompt into Veo, take your output, put that back into GPT and do that cycle we did earlier, right? Adapt your prompt based on the output you got, right? Don't go into the prompt yourself and like try to tweak it. Like that will just drive you mad. Like this system where you're just sort of like having a positive feedback loop, I promise you like you'll get a much better output and like you'll be, you know, home in time to take pick your kid up from daycare.
(27:07) So everybody listening to this will be a year ahead because they they listen to this. But I'll be at least a couple weeks ahead because I'm going to download this and send it to my team before this goes live. So you know he's going to be closing deals sitting there prompt to this UC. That's good stuff.
(27:22) So now let's go into actually getting into some of these prompts really deeply. If we want to, you know, if you want to learn how to do this yourself, my recommendation for anyone is to always sort of start in MidJourney. It's the easiest platform to utilize. So, I'll just share my full screen here.
(27:37) Actually, probably easier just share it up my window. Okay, so again, uh, Journey is the safest, easiest tool to use. If you don't know anything about AI, get Midjourney. 60 bucks a month. You get unlimited prompts and it does video, it does image. Obviously, Meta did a partnership with Midjourney. Um, so I'm sure we're going to be seeing more Midjourney content in there.
(28:01) But again, like this is always my recommended starting point because you can do a lot with it. Um, and so in this sort of exercise, we can talk about, you know, sort of taking a static ad, adding some motion to it. And you can sort of see, I was messing around with this, you know, a little bit before our call. One quick thing is when you start with MidJourney, you're going to want to create a new profile um, and answer these 200 questions.
(28:26) You know, which do you like more, which do you like less? It doesn't really affect your output. it's just, you know, trying to train its LLM, of course, but this will give you access to V7 in MidJourney, and that's the model you ultimately want to utilize. So, again, where I like to use MidJourney the most, and I think the safest sort of place to start is taking existing statics you've created and adding some motion to them.
(28:47) So, where I like to do, this is actually the only time I ever use chat GBT is with uh prompting the sort of content we're we're discussing now. Everything else I use Cloud for. Cloud is like a little bit more creative. Uh but chat GBT the main reason I use chat GBT and this is really important. So like every prompt that has copy in it you need to include that copy in the prompt.
(29:09) So like or every ad rather that has copy in it you need to use that copy in the prompt and chat GBT does a better job reading copy on ads than claude. That's really the main reason. Um and I'm sure many folks have discovered that in the past.
(29:26) So, uh, you know, here was a hollow socks ad, uh, you know, built for serious hunters that I found, you know, in, uh, Facebook ad library, right? And so, the first thing I want to do is I want to create a prompt. So, you know, let's just sort of say like I'm exhausted. I've had a long day and I say, you know, uh, I want to take this static add and convert and add animation to it. I will be using midjourney. Give me some ideas.
(29:55) So this is generally you know sort of brainstorming like um where do where do we begin? Um and so like in this case if it's built for serious hunters we probably need to like add some animation there. And like of course we could do something simple with with you know ruffling leaves or what have you. Um it doesn't really matter. Um so we can just sort of see if like anything here is sort of interesting at all.
(30:19) uh you know, slow motion, fog drifting, atmospheric lighting, etc. into the hunt. This is I sent you guys this before, but like you know, maybe having some animals moving in the background. And so, like, if I had a specific idea here, like I would obviously skip this step. Uh but this is always generally a good place to start. So, we'll do what we did earlier. Say, uh actually, let's animate it.
(30:42) So, there are a few animals in the background. We want to create a prompt for midjourney 7. Please include all of the copy that is on the static ad in the prompt. So now this will give me something, you know, semi-usable theoretically. And nothing like the sickopanted GPT5. I always miss it when I come back. Uh, okay, cool. So now we have our prompt, right? So I'm just going to cop this.
(31:12) Copy this. I'm going to go into midjourney here. Uh, I'm honestly going to get rid of all of this and then just go into settings and do 9x6. Make sure our model is on version 7. And then I'm going to add So Will, so for those for those that are listening, you're saying getting rid of this and and what did you delete there? Sure.
(31:33) So, uh, GPT5 likes to add on all these sort of extra things, right? Like aspect ratio 9 by6, version seven, style raw, chaos 10, motion three, camera move, slight pan, weird zero. like these are things that you know you can customize for, but ultimately I it's anything with sort of like the two dashes before them, right? And so like if you again like are listening to this, what I would recommend doing is within um within midjourney, there's a settings button and you can choose all of these settings yourself within the settings button. So here I'm able to choose my image size. I can just like square, landscape,
(32:05) portrait. Uh we'll just go 9x6 here. stylization. I just generally use a standards here. Standard the most important thing is uh version seven. Um and always I like to do four generations. What I have historically said is that like one out of five will be good for GIF. One out of 10 videos will be good.
(32:31) So uh you know we'll prompt this and you can see within my prompt it says hollow at the top and it says built for series hunters. So in my prompt, I'm copying the copy over um which is you know definitely an essential part of you know and I just realized I didn't add the image first. So let me just do that. So now we have uh the starting frame uh and the end frame. So now it's just going to this is just going to make an assumption. So I'm just going to cancel this one.
(32:51) Cool. Any questions so far while this generates? No, honestly super straightforward. Yeah, it's really not too complicated. So again, like this is just a a way to like take your existing statics, multiply them by two, 5, 10. Like we can go back to our GPT5 and like maybe there are some other cool ideas in here, right? Like um light fog drifts, tiny particles, like you could do more of like a cinemagraph style, right? Uh so it's again the ability to take your existing content, amplify it uh for uh for different audiences, if you will. And in this one, it just put like a kind
(33:26) of put a deer walking behind it, which is pretty cool. Um, and then what the other ideas that I came up with are looks like some sort of British hunter. Yeah. And and so yeah, this was there's an there's like an alpaca idea that I came up with. So yeah, it's kind of cool. Totally.
(33:44) And you know, I actually did this sort of similar prompt earlier. And so we can sort of see here, you know, the outcome of that, right? We have these sort of four versions with uh you know the buck in the background. A few of them has have animation. Obviously the copy was eliminated from this one. So I would scrap that. But like something like this you know I would certainly run.
(34:03) And you can see the copy rendering is very strong right? Like there's no sort of fuzziness. Uh everything sort of comes across super clean and like now I have a GIF that I just created in what uh you know 12 seconds that I can run as an ad. Should uh send it to Zach and let it rip. See if it works. Yeah.
(34:22) So, here we go. Like here's another option, right? Those are wild. Yeah. So, now we have like a little bit more animation in the background. And you can see here we lost our copy, right? So, like I said, one out of five will turn out well. The rest will sort of be mid. Yeah. But honestly, that's not even that bad, right? Like the build for serious hunters is up long enough that you might see it and then you get to see the deer walking more clearly behind.
(34:41) I like how it's rotating. Yeah, the sock is rotating. That's kind of cool. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, it's clean. I like that. Yeah. I have a question about that quick before we move on though. Do you find that you need to like I mean the the the script that you have is not overly simplistic, right? There's like a decent amount of detail to that, but is there a is there a balance between like how much you should be giving it or is what you get back from GPT? Like GPT does a pretty good job at keeping it the essentials? Yeah, it's funny you say that. I think people overengineer their
(35:10) prompts and they think like this little tweak will change that, this little tweak will change this. I'm very much of the mindset that your prompt is fine. Like what GPT spits out to you is good. The the reality is is that you know sort of like human beings AI is exceedingly inconsistent. So if you prompt that same thing again a great part of my bid journey unlimited 60 bucks a month.
(35:32) So I could just reprompt this thing you know 20 times eventually I'm going to find something I like. that's going to be a lot faster and a lot less of a headache than me trying to, you know, prompt it and then I'll be like, "Oh, well, this prompt worked perfectly." But that was probably just the reality of you got a good output, you know, luckily with that prompt.
(35:50) So, I would say your prompt is fine. Unless you're like obviously, you know, there's something really explicit in here that doesn't make any sense. Um, like in this case, if I wanted the copy to sort of stay on longer, what I would do is I would go back to my GPT. I would download this as a GIF and then I would say I mean we can do it. Um I would download this as a GIF.
(36:13) I would go back to my uh my GPT chat and I would say this was the output. The copy disappears. Um can you correct the prompt to have the copy remain on? And so like that's how I would prompt engineer, right? I would take your output. I would put it back into GBT and say like this is what I got. This is what I want to fix.
(36:40) And like this will make more sense when we sort of like do product placement because like you sometimes you just like really need to isolate one component. Um and so in this case like what I did for those listening is like I you know downloaded the GIF I put in the GPT. I said this is the output the copy disappears. Can you correct the prompt to have the copy remain on screen for the entirety of the animation? So now I'm going to go back.
(37:00) I'm going to do the sort of the same process. I'm going to delete our little double dashes that have AR-16 uh you know the aspect ratio. I'm just going to make sure everything looks good here. I'm going to add our starting frame with the built for series hunters. And then I'm just going to reprompt it. Um so yeah, that's sort of the GIF flow.
(37:21) And like there's so much you can do here, right? Like this is your playground. Uh, you know, if you were to sort of scroll down in here, I would say like my team like uses like this was an example of an ad we created in Nana Banana and then we wanted to add some motion to it, right? Like made the fire, made the guy move around like you know, cracking a can, you know, what have you. Like our team is in midjourney all the time.
(37:41) It's just the easiest. It's the lower lowest barrier to entry and know we'll get here in a second, but also if you need to replace a product, it's a great way to create a good product backdrop. So like if I will say midjourney sucks at product rendering like that's why you know we don't use midjourney for anything product specific.
(38:03) It's really for vibes or for creating gifts but midjourney is best as sort of step one. So let's sort of you know move into sort of workflow two. So next you know next sort of step in the process let's talk about sort of product insertion. So uh I was doing this before. So again, like what I like to do is go to Pinterest and it seems like you know for Zach and his brand like hunters are very much a big part of uh you know who he's targeting.
(38:26) So if I wanted you know I did this before but like Hunter you know wearing socks right and this was my sort of reference image. Uh maybe there's something a little bit better. Um let's just say maybe we want something like a little bit more vintage.
(38:43) Uh, I would say Zach's probably looking for something more like murka. Got it. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like a like a bearded beefy man, you know? Yeah. Somebody like but with a full Yeah. Somebody like Brad but with full facial hair that is like that loves loves guns and loves America. Got it. Loves his wife. Maybe a little more of a gut. Drives a truck. Loves a loves a fresh a fresh beer ski. Okay. Loves a burger.
(39:12) Do you need more? Definitely one right there. The tobacco field. This one. Left one more. That was actually both. Both of those are vibes out. This is This could be our guy. That seems like that's my guy, honestly. All right.
(39:28) So So for those of you that are listening, it's a it's an older gentleman that uh is wearing socks. He's got jeans on and he's not smiling um at all. And this is actually just so we don't get sued. You know, this is actually not the image we're going to use. So, what we're going to actually do is we're going to, you know, we're going to save this image into the void.
(39:46) Uh, and then we're going to go into this little nifty tool called free image uh to prompt generator. Love this guy. Uh, and now I'm going to upload that image that we just found. Oops, not that one. Here we go. Here's our friend. And I'm going to generate a midjourney prompt for him. Right.
(40:08) So, obviously you can do this in GPT as well, but I find that like this tool you get, you know, five free a day. It's just like it gets it really, really close. So, I'm going to take this midjourney prompt that we just generated with image prompt.org. Going to go back to our friends in Midjourney. We can also look at these. Oh, look. Our copy is now saying the entire time. Like, great. We just tweaked that little thing. And now we have an ad.
(40:25) Maybe that one's a little wonky, but you sort of get the idea, right? Like we all we did was we took our prompt, we put the output in, and we sort of uh cleaned it up a bit. Okay. So now I'm just going to take that prompt that we just generated an image uh prompt.org. I'm going to do the same thing.
(40:41) I'm going to do 9 by6 uh you know version 7 whatever. And then I'm going to generate that. So this image that we generate is going to be our baseline image that we utilize. Um, and what we're going to do is we're going to take uh our image and we'll probably have to reprompt this because uh we need to be able to see his socks more a little bit.
(41:06) Um, but we're going to be taking this image and this is going to be our baseline. And another thing that Mjourney doesn't do so well is it like gets people people look too like play-dohy like they're too plastic. It's like very clearly AI. And so we're also going to be using um, you know, seedream to clean that up. So you can sort of see this based on that image. This is what we got. So I'm going to actually take one of these images.
(41:28) Uh I'm going to do exactly what I did before. I'm going to go into our GPT chat. I'm going to paste that in here. I'm going to paste our initial prompt in here. And this is an image of an older gentleman sitting in front of a bunch of guns with a then standing next to somebody with a flannel. And he's downloading the image. And now you're taking it into a different place into chat GBT.
(41:53) So you went you went Pinterest to the free the image to prompt generator and then you went image to prompt generator into uh midjourney. Midjourney kind of missed the socks. It didn't generate exactly what you wanted with the socks showing obviously and that's kind of what the product is.
(42:07) Uh so you're taking that back to GPT and you're asking it to show the socks better. Right. Bingo. Exactly. Oh yeah. Nailed it. Okay. So, let's redo this. Let's see what we get. No, socks are the main event here. Okay, nice. You can tell we're getting some We're getting some movement. It's a real guy's guy. This guy loves to crush Budweiser after work. Yeah. Yes. I like what I'm saying.
(42:32) He would he between the choice of buying a new truck or a older F-150, he would buy the older one cuz that's when they that's when they they made them better. The 1995 whatever version. Andrew, that might be you in like 50 years. Yeah, it looks pretty looks I mean what we're looking at here for those of you that are listening is a photo of an incredibly handsome man.
(42:54) He could be a model actually like a handsome older man. And uh we're going to put some socks on him. Uh some some hollow socks of course because those are the best. And because this model/handsome man loves hunting and he likes to have the ability to have his feet be dry, that's where we're giving him holo socks. Totally. And it looks like we have a little some horse saddles in the background.
(43:16) So maybe we also maybe want to prompt this one more time to add some, you know, rifles or, you know, not a big gun guy, but maybe that's rifles. I mean, what do people shoot with? Bows, guns. Yeah, I'm not sure. Okay. I'm not sure either. I'm not I'm I'm the opposite person to ask about hunting. Okay. Okay.
(43:41) Um Yeah, me too. I live in New York City. Okay. So let's redo this one more time and say uh and again every time what I'm doing when I'm refining my prompt I'm just taking the image that we just generated in midjourney putting it back into GPT5 and saying uh in this case I'm going to say in the background I would like more you know hunting parapelia nice um so I'm just going to redo this you know one final time and hopefully I mean what's interesting about it to me is like it goes back and forth between all these different tools and you're utilizing using them to to just refine one another. Um, which like like you said, it's obviously going to be in one place,
(44:15) but I think what's what's cool about it is it actually is putting together really good outputs that you know. So, if somebody So, let's say that I run one of these, but this old guy will just to be clear, you have to you have to say this is created with AI in your ads. If it's utilizing some like person, you have to disclose that from an FTC standpoint, right? Yeah, I believe so.
(44:37) I think that is uh you know that you have to say this is AI generated. Same thing you'd have have to do like if you're using UGC actor, right? Like you'd have to say paid actor sort of same idea, right? You have to just just FYI to everybody out there that you do have to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody totally does that too, especially with UGC creators. Oh, totally. Oh, everyone does this.
(44:58) Of course, it's 100% compliance across the board. But I do know that the FTC, you know, we all follow that that lawyer guy on on on Meta or X. Uh I mean, it's case after case of like, hey, they, you know, they utilize this, they didn't disclose this, like this stuff's coming out more and more.
(45:15) And if you're a bigger company that's scaling, you just really got to see why to make sure you're okay. For sure. Okay. So, I actually feel great about this image. I feel like there's, you know, we're sort of hitting the nail on the head.
(45:28) We can see the socks really well, so being able to swap the product out will be great. He's got some camo gear, you know, he's got some buck horns. Uh he's got, you know, some rifles. Uh so yeah, I feel pretty good about this. And again, you can sort of see like if we zoom in on on our friend here, like it still feels like a little plasticky.
(45:45) So that's another thing we're going to have to adjust for. Like especially these ones. These are much more offensive. Like you can very clearly tell these are AI. This gu is actually not horrible. Um but ultimately, you know, we will want to sort of clean that up. So, okay, next step in the process. I'm going to download this image. And here, let me actually share my full screen here.
(46:05) Um, so you can see me do this. Okay. So, I've now downloaded this image. What I'm going to do now is I'm going to uh is this our friend? I'm going to open this in preview. And then I'm going to go to tools, annotate, uh, rectangle, and I'm going to highlight just his socks. I'm going to do it for both socks. Okay. This is some mastery [ __ ] right here.
(46:28) I've done a lot of what you're talking about thanks to you teaching me, but I haven't done this, which is literally just creating a box around the socks to say, "Hey, this is what I'm looking for." Exactly. And the the reason we're doing this is like we actually won't use the box when we're generating the image prompt, but we will use the the boxes for GPT to write uh a a succinct prompt to ensure that nothing else changes but the socks. And so we'll sort of see what that looks like.
(46:56) So, we're going to go back to our GPT that we've been working with. We're going to grab our little friend, the hunter. Big manly friend, sorry. Um, we're going to put that in here. And then what I'm also going to do is grab a photo of hollow socks. So, I'm just going to, you know, grab uh something without copy on it, I guess.
(47:18) Like, is this This is probably This is the one that advertising for hunters, so maybe I'll just save this one. It's a nice one. Yep. Orange and black high top crew. Yep. Perfect. So what I'm going to do now is we have our hunter friend. I'm going to take this uh hollow socks image and say okay next step uh please write a nano banana prompt to uh put the socks on uh the hollow socks in the prompt. Please include all copy that appears on the sock.
(47:54) Please note we will not be uploading the red boxes. So our prompt needs to be succinct enough to change just the element and nothing else. Um and then uh I think that's I think I'm not missing anything there. So let's do that.
(48:23) Um, oh, I will be uploading both the image of the elderly gentleman and the hollow socks. Uh, okay, cool. So, now what I'm going to do, let's go back to our image. Maybe I'll save this one as or I'll just, you know, now we have this in GBT. We can just delete this. So, I'm going to save this. Save this. Okay, cool. This is for nano banana midjourney sub. Sometimes they will think you're doing one thing then another.
(48:47) Again, we need to pinpoint and change just the socks. Okay, this is a little short. I'm not super bullish on this, but we'll see what happens. Um, okay. So, now I'm in a tool called foul.ai. If you've ever spoken to me about AI creative, I've definitely mentioned this to you. It's a Higsfield competitor. Uh, effectively what it is is just like it combines all of the AI models into one place.
(49:13) So it's just like very easy to you know use anything. The only tool I don't utilize in uh in foul actually two midjourney is because obviously midjourney doesn't have an API so foul couldn't use it and veo3 veo3.1 I guess I use directly in Google deepmind uh in in what they call flux because there you're able to if you pay like 120 bucks a month you get unlimited veo3 fast and in this case it's sort of pay as you go.
(49:43) Okay so now we're in fell.ai AI in nano banana. I'm going to put our prompt in here. I'm going to add our images. Oh, I don't know why this is showing up as I'm going to generate four images because again I would say one out of five is okay. Aspect ratio 9 by6 and I'm going to run it. And so again for those of you listening, I did not include the little red boxes around the guy's feet.
(50:09) uh you know the only thing uh the red boxes are used is to make sure your GPT prompt is proper right uh so oh yeah looks like he's wearing some hollow socks there yeah but again like this not a great first output right because it just says hollow but as you can see sort of nothing else changed so now I would go back to our GBT copy this image paste it in here and say uh we need to include more detail in our prompt uh as the output did not match the sock exactly. Please analyze the skew image of the
(50:51) sock and include that detail in the nano nano. You know it what's interesting about this is that it's utilizing all these tools in in combination with one another and it's also giving some really good outputs um very quickly. like we've only been doing this for essentially like 30 minutes and we have, you know, a number of things that we can use. Okay, so again, like not perfect.
(51:15) I would probably want to prompt this a few more times to get the the socks to be exactly right. But let's just say we were happy with this so we can sort of switch topics. The most important thing, not the most important thing, but an important thing, this is just like a little bit of a hack, is again making him look a little less plasticky. Um, and that's what I use the C3 model for.
(51:37) Um, so, uh, and we can include Will, by the way, for for podcast listeners, we can include, um, notes from you to make sure that people can like walk through this a little bit themselves of the things that you've covered and a couple of other ideas. For sure. Just so they can guide through them. Guide through it themselves. Definitely.
(51:57) And like again, this is one of these things where you just want to do it yourself. Like that's the best way to learn. Uh, you know, watching me do this is probably helpful. Uh but it's only starting point. So there's one very simple prompt to make people look a little less plasticky. I put it in our notes over here, but it's just this. So uh it's image_3984.CR2. The as I understand it, the C3 model was trained on Canon RAW files.
(52:23) So when you include the CR2 within the prompt, it makes it HD. And then I say, please upscale uh you know this person, showcase pores, etc. and make them feel less plastic. And so I'm going to again let's do four images. Uh and we'll we'll do you know portrait 9 by6. Uh sream takes a second. So I can sort of pause there. You know we'll show you guys the output.
(52:50) It'll probably take a minute or two and you know we can sort of switch topics. Yeah. I'd be curious like before we switch to the operational stuff and come back to that. Like why don't we just I think it'd be helpful to list out some of the workflows that you have with the specific tools. So like you started with the the static to GIF GIF peanut butter static to GIF with with midjourney.
(53:10) The next thing you did was you um I mean you kind of combined some of those things but then you also use nano banana for product insertion fixing the plastic nature of them is is using Cream. Is there anything else with those three tools that that are worthwhile to chat on or do you want to just like quickly mention the other couple that you've got? Yeah, so Cream uh again I would say has two really good use cases.
(53:30) One is like making people look like people and two it's image resizing. If you and uh it's a very simple prompt if you have like a 9 by6 image upload it to GPT you know please read all of the components of my 9 by6 image take that prompt put it into Cream and then change the aspect ratio directly in Cream and that way you can like very I think I did this actually ahead of our call for um and I can show you this quickly for these guys right so like this was a 9x6 image uh I said please resize
(54:00) this exact ad to one by one square format while preserving every visual ual element, composition, text hierarchy, keeping the two black and orange hollow, you know, one labeled over the calf, etc. Like what I did is I uploaded my 9x6 image into GPT. I had GPT read every piece of copy on it and then include every piece of copy in the prompt as well as the different components.
(54:21) So like of course some of these like is they're going to change a little bit, but like there we go, right? That's a perfect, you know, one by one image of that exact same thing. So like if you just like don't have the the time, energy or effort to just like quickly resize something, sometimes we'll just do this and it works very well.
(54:43) Uh the one sort of caveat is make sure you're using HD, the HD feature directly in Cream. Um cool. So now we sort of go back to our guy here again. Helix looks a lot better, right? Like it actually feels, you know, a bit more human. Uh like I think this one's probably the best. It's just like a great way to get like more consistent coloring. um across the board.
(55:05) And so like if I were to go, you know, one step further, my sort of final step in this process would be taking this image going to VO 3.1 and using this image as a start frame. And then I would I would take this image as well, upload it, you know, back into Nano Banana and have this man maybe, you know, hunting and then using those as a start and end frame. And now I have a great piece of B-roll of the man sort of sitting in his shop.
(55:27) uh you know just maybe he's like moving a little bit and then it transitions to him like walking around with the socks in the woods uh actually like hunting dough or whatever it is. Yeah. Or he's like pulling up the sock, putting his boot on like something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So like the it's all you would really do is take this image that we just generated in Cream, put it back into Nano Banana and say using this man create XYZ scene. And now you have an end frame.
(55:53) So you can create like a whole piece of B-roll with the person wearing, you know, the proper socks. Yeah, I mean I think I think there's a ton of ton to say here. Will appreciate your time. Appreciate you being here. Uh we'll put uh share your document to anybody in the show notes on scalabilitychool.com. Um it'll also be in the show notes on youtube.
(56:20) com/scalabilitychool where you can find us. Um, or you can email brad at sexybrad.net. No, just kidding. That's not email. You can email me at andrew@foxhwelldigital.com and I'm happy to connect you into any of the resources that you need. Will a banger episode. Yeah, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. This episode is brought to you by Homestead's email and SMS service.
(56:48) Honestly, we've we've done an episode with with Jacob from Homestead. He's the man and he's he's got to be probably one of the smartest email and retention operators like on the agency side, hands down. I look forward to seeing the tweets that he puts out basically every single month with like a recap of the designs and as amazing as the designs themselves are, it's the actual like tactical behind the scenes work where he just like knows what he's doing.
(57:11) And the team at Homestead like really know what they're doing on email and SMS. probably if not the number one very very close to competing for number one retention agency in the DDC space. So just killing it. Yeah, absolutely agree. You know, if you are looking at your emails and you're like these are terrible and you know you can optimize the flows and you know you can do SMS better, you got to look at the Homestead team.
(57:36) So check them out, reach out and they can definitely help make your entire email and retention and SMS program so much better. And I'm not just saying that. We've all seen the work. I actually had a a member who sat down with with Jacob at the founder meetup that we had and he came over to me and said, "I just talked to him for 10 minutes and literally he he's revolutionized my entire email department.
(57:59) " So, agencies are modeling themselves off of what Jacob is giving them for advice. So, anyway, onwards to uh hopefully working with them. The only way that we grow this podcast is by you sharing it with your friends, honestly. Like, reviews kind of don't really mean anything too much anymore. They're really meaningful, but they don't do a lot for the growth of the podcast.
(58:24) Um, and so sharing YouTube links, sharing Spotify links, sharing Apple, whatever we call it under the podcast app. Now, anything you can share, the better we're going to be. Um, guys, anything else you want to say on this? Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube. Rack up those views for us. We'd love to see it. And then subscribe. Make sure to subscribe on YouTube as well.
(58:42) And I relentlessly refresh the YouTube comments because it dictates my mental health for the day. So, please say something nice about all of us. Thank you everyone. Thank you for listening. Honestly,
